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#1: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-19 21:37:24 by John

I was talking to a Jazz musician in the East Village, somehow the
topic of gays came up.
He was proud that there aren't any gay male jazz musicians, according
to him anyway.
He challenged me to name one. I was at a loss to think of one. He
wasn't the first
jazz musician to tell me that, either.

I read chess master Dr. Reuben Fine's book, "The Psychology of the
Chess Player".
He said he only knew of one openly gay chess master.

Are Jazz and chess "macho"? I wonder if an openly gay Flamenco
guitarist would
be accepted in Spain?

Report this message

#2: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-19 21:51:54 by Snookie

Interesting question; I am not aware of any gay guitarists either but I do
know that 87% of all flute players are gay. This percentage rises when it
comes to piccolo players. Astounding isn't it!

Snookie


&lt;<a href="mailto:john&#64;sportsmednutrition.com" target="_blank">john&#64;sportsmednutrition.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:<a href="mailto:1153337844.235296.52640&#64;h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com..." target="_blank">1153337844.235296.52640&#64;h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...</a>
&gt;
&gt; I was talking to a Jazz musician in the East Village, somehow the
&gt; topic of gays came up.
&gt; He was proud that there aren't any gay male jazz musicians, according
&gt; to him anyway.
&gt; He challenged me to name one. I was at a loss to think of one. He
&gt; wasn't the first
&gt; jazz musician to tell me that, either.
&gt;
&gt; I read chess master Dr. Reuben Fine's book, &quot;The Psychology of the
&gt; Chess Player&quot;.
&gt; He said he only knew of one openly gay chess master.
&gt;
&gt; Are Jazz and chess &quot;macho&quot;? I wonder if an openly gay Flamenco
&gt; guitarist would
&gt; be accepted in Spain?
&gt;

Report this message

#3: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-19 21:53:23 by derek

Who cares?

Report this message

#4: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-19 21:53:58 by Nate Najar

Jimmy Wyble is gay.

Nate

<a href="mailto:john&#64;sportsmednutrition.com" target="_blank">john&#64;sportsmednutrition.com</a> wrote:
&gt; I was talking to a Jazz musician in the East Village, somehow the
&gt; topic of gays came up.
&gt; He was proud that there aren't any gay male jazz musicians, according
&gt; to him anyway.
&gt; He challenged me to name one. I was at a loss to think of one. He
&gt; wasn't the first
&gt; jazz musician to tell me that, either.
&gt;
&gt; I read chess master Dr. Reuben Fine's book, &quot;The Psychology of the
&gt; Chess Player&quot;.
&gt; He said he only knew of one openly gay chess master.
&gt;
&gt; Are Jazz and chess &quot;macho&quot;? I wonder if an openly gay Flamenco
&gt; guitarist would
&gt; be accepted in Spain?

Report this message

#5: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-19 21:55:32 by Formerly Sideways

All this proves is that said &quot;Jazz musician&quot; from the East Village is a
homophobe.

That should not be a source of pride for anyone.


&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:john&#64;sportsmednutrition.com" target="_blank">john&#64;sportsmednutrition.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
&gt; news:<a href="mailto:1153337844.235296.52640&#64;h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com..." target="_blank">1153337844.235296.52640&#64;h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...</a>
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; I was talking to a Jazz musician in the East Village, somehow the
&gt; &gt; topic of gays came up.
&gt; &gt; He was proud that there aren't any gay male jazz musicians, according
&gt; &gt; to him anyway.
&gt; &gt; He challenged me to name one. I was at a loss to think of one. He
&gt; &gt; wasn't the first
&gt; &gt; jazz musician to tell me that, either.
&gt; &gt;

Report this message

#6: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-19 22:04:28 by Dean

Bill Strayhan was gay. Gary Burton came out a couple years ago. Andy
Bey is also out. A google search yielded this web page:
<a href="http://www.afterelton.com/music/2006/1/jazz.html" target="_blank">http://www.afterelton.com/music/2006/1/jazz.html</a> which lists a couple
other jazz composers/performers.

I toured with a group that include a gay man, back in 1974-75. There
was no tension within the group, as far as I could tell. He was open
with the band, and we did not care, but he was not open with the
public.

<a href="mailto:john&#64;sportsmednutrition.com" target="_blank">john&#64;sportsmednutrition.com</a> wrote:
&gt; I was talking to a Jazz musician in the East Village, somehow the
&gt; topic of gays came up.
&gt; He was proud that there aren't any gay male jazz musicians, according
&gt; to him anyway.
&gt; He challenged me to name one. I was at a loss to think of one. He
&gt; wasn't the first
&gt; jazz musician to tell me that, either.
&gt;
&gt; I read chess master Dr. Reuben Fine's book, &quot;The Psychology of the
&gt; Chess Player&quot;.
&gt; He said he only knew of one openly gay chess master.
&gt;
&gt; Are Jazz and chess &quot;macho&quot;? I wonder if an openly gay Flamenco
&gt; guitarist would
&gt; be accepted in Spain?

Report this message

#7: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-19 22:07:59 by El Kabong

&quot;Formerly Sideways&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:twotone60&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">twotone60&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; wrote

&gt; All this proves is that said &quot;Jazz musician&quot; from the East Village is a
&gt; homophobe.
&gt;
&gt; That should not be a source of pride for anyone.

True. A big jazz fan I met at work and I were talking
about Miles Davis one day, out of the blue he said &quot;It's a shame his brother
was gay&quot;, shaking his head, with a disgusted look on his face. I don't know
if that's true, but this guy thought it was important.. It appeared to
really bother him, to the point where he couldn't discuss Miles Davis
without bringing it up. Weird.


--
+

Johnny Asia, Guitarist from the Future
<a href="http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=78840" target="_blank">http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=78840</a>


&quot;I say play your own way. Don't play what the public wants. You play what
you want and let the public pick up on what you're doing even if it does
take
them fifteen, twenty years.&quot; - Thelonious Monk



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from <a href="http://www.teranews.com" target="_blank">http://www.teranews.com</a>

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#8: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-19 22:08:50 by Pat Smith

Ya know... I find this totally offensive. I think your friend is an ass
for being proud that he thinks there are no gay jazz musicians. And I
can't help but wonder what a person's sexuality has to do with playing
jazz??

<a href="mailto:john&#64;sportsmednutrition.com" target="_blank">john&#64;sportsmednutrition.com</a> wrote:

&gt; I was talking to a Jazz musician in the East Village, somehow the
&gt; topic of gays came up.
&gt; He was proud that there aren't any gay male jazz musicians, according
&gt; to him anyway.
&gt; He challenged me to name one. I was at a loss to think of one. He
&gt; wasn't the first
&gt; jazz musician to tell me that, either.
&gt;
&gt; I read chess master Dr. Reuben Fine's book, &quot;The Psychology of the
&gt; Chess Player&quot;.
&gt; He said he only knew of one openly gay chess master.
&gt;
&gt; Are Jazz and chess &quot;macho&quot;? I wonder if an openly gay Flamenco
&gt; guitarist would
&gt; be accepted in Spain?
&gt;

Report this message

#9: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-19 22:17:26 by Nate Najar

Strayhorn was gay too, now that I think about it.

Report this message

#10: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-19 22:17:48 by bornfeldmung

Formerly Sideways wrote:

&gt; All this proves is that said &quot;Jazz musician&quot; from the East Village is a
&gt; homophobe.

Must be tough--homophobe livin' in the E. Village, I mean.

;-)

Steve
&gt;
&gt; That should not be a source of pride for anyone.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; &gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:john&#64;sportsmednutrition.com" target="_blank">john&#64;sportsmednutrition.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
&gt;
&gt;&gt;news:<a href="mailto:1153337844.235296.52640&#64;h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com..." target="_blank">1153337844.235296.52640&#64;h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...</a>
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;I was talking to a Jazz musician in the East Village, somehow the
&gt;&gt;&gt;topic of gays came up.
&gt;&gt;&gt;He was proud that there aren't any gay male jazz musicians, according
&gt;&gt;&gt;to him anyway.
&gt;&gt;&gt;He challenged me to name one. I was at a loss to think of one. He
&gt;&gt;&gt;wasn't the first
&gt;&gt;&gt;jazz musician to tell me that, either.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt;


--
Mark &amp; Steven Bornfeld DDS
<a href="http://www.dentaltwins.com" target="_blank">http://www.dentaltwins.com</a>
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

Report this message

#11: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-19 22:19:40 by bornfeldmung

Johnny Asia wrote:

&gt; &quot;Formerly Sideways&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:twotone60&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">twotone60&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; wrote
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt;All this proves is that said &quot;Jazz musician&quot; from the East Village is a
&gt;&gt;homophobe.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;That should not be a source of pride for anyone.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; True. A big jazz fan I met at work and I were talking
&gt; about Miles Davis one day, out of the blue he said &quot;It's a shame his brother
&gt; was gay&quot;, shaking his head, with a disgusted look on his face.


OTOH, it's just weird that Miles's father was a dentist.

Steve


--
Mark &amp; Steven Bornfeld DDS
<a href="http://www.dentaltwins.com" target="_blank">http://www.dentaltwins.com</a>
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

Report this message

#12: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-19 22:23:02 by sean

On 7/19/06 1:19 PM, in article wtwvg.105$<a href="mailto:Wf.86&#64;trndny01" target="_blank">Wf.86&#64;trndny01</a>, &quot;Mark &amp; Steven
Bornfeld&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:bornfeldmung&#64;dentaltwins.com" target="_blank">bornfeldmung&#64;dentaltwins.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt; Johnny Asia wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; &quot;Formerly Sideways&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:twotone60&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">twotone60&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; wrote
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; All this proves is that said &quot;Jazz musician&quot; from the East Village is a
&gt;&gt;&gt; homophobe.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; That should not be a source of pride for anyone.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; True. A big jazz fan I met at work and I were talking
&gt;&gt; about Miles Davis one day, out of the blue he said &quot;It's a shame his brother
&gt;&gt; was gay&quot;, shaking his head, with a disgusted look on his face.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; OTOH, it's just weird that Miles's father was a dentist.
&gt;
&gt; Steve
&gt;

Now all the anti-dentite comments will start.

Report this message

#13: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-19 22:25:23 by El Kabong

&quot;Mark &amp; Steven Bornfeld&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:bornfeldmung&#64;dentaltwins.com" target="_blank">bornfeldmung&#64;dentaltwins.com</a>&gt; wrote in message

&gt; Must be tough--homophobe livin' in the E. Village, I mean.
&gt;


Maybe this is why it was so hard on him to live in the
East Village:

<a href="http://www.apa.org/" target="_blank">http://www.apa.org/</a>


Study Links Homophobia with Homosexual Arousal

WASHINGTON -- Psychoanalytic theory holds that homophobia -- the fear,
anxiety, anger, discomfort and aversion that some ostensibly heterosexual
people hold for gay individuals -- is the result of repressed homosexual
urges that the person is either unaware of or
denies. A study appearing in the August 1996 issue of the Journal of
Abnormal Psychology, published by the American Psychological Association
(APA), provides new empirical evidence that is consistent
with that theory.


Researchers at the University of Georgia conducted an experiment involving
35 homophobic men and 29 nonhomophobic men as measured by
the Index of Homophobia scale. All the participants selected for the study
described themselves as exclusively heterosexual both in terms of sexual
arousal and experience.


Each participant was exposed to sexually explicit erotic stimuli consisting
of heterosexual, male homosexual and lesbian videotapes (but not necessarily
in that order). Their degree of sexual arousal was measured by penile
plethysmography, which precisely measures and
records male tumescence.


Men in both groups were aroused by about the same degree by the video
depicting heterosexual sexual behavior and by the video showing two women
engaged in sexual behavior. The only significant difference in
degree of arousal between the two groups occurred when they viewed the video
depicting male homosexual sex: 'The homophobic men showed a significant
increase in penile circumference to the male homosexual
video, but the control [nonhomophobic] men did not.'




--
Posted via a free Usenet account from <a href="http://www.teranews.com" target="_blank">http://www.teranews.com</a>

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#14: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-19 22:28:30 by jeff29_b

Nate Najar wrote:
&gt; Strayhorn was gay too, now that I think about it.

So is Gary Burton and Fred Hersch. Silly comments.

Report this message

#15: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-19 22:32:21 by bornfeldmung

Sean wrote:

&gt; On 7/19/06 1:19 PM, in article wtwvg.105$<a href="mailto:Wf.86&#64;trndny01" target="_blank">Wf.86&#64;trndny01</a>, &quot;Mark &amp; Steven
&gt; Bornfeld&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:bornfeldmung&#64;dentaltwins.com" target="_blank">bornfeldmung&#64;dentaltwins.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt;Johnny Asia wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&quot;Formerly Sideways&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:twotone60&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">twotone60&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; wrote
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;All this proves is that said &quot;Jazz musician&quot; from the East Village is a
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;homophobe.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;That should not be a source of pride for anyone.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; True. A big jazz fan I met at work and I were talking
&gt;&gt;&gt;about Miles Davis one day, out of the blue he said &quot;It's a shame his brother
&gt;&gt;&gt;was gay&quot;, shaking his head, with a disgusted look on his face.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;OTOH, it's just weird that Miles's father was a dentist.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;Steve
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Now all the anti-dentite comments will start.
&gt;

Sooooo predictable.



--
Mark &amp; Steven Bornfeld DDS
<a href="http://www.dentaltwins.com" target="_blank">http://www.dentaltwins.com</a>
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

Report this message

#16: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-19 22:54:04 by Al

Boy, that's interesting. I'm looking at the homophobes I've met in an
entirely different light now.

&quot;Women want to know why men are turned on by lesbians. That's easy. We
agree with both of them!&quot; -- Paul Reiser



&gt; Study Links Homophobia with Homosexual Arousal

Report this message

#17: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-19 22:54:22 by Kid Kool

Nate Najar wrote:
&gt; Strayhorn was gay too, now that I think about it.

In Louis Armstrong's biography it's stated that Baby Dodds was gay. Big
whoop de doo.

Report this message

#18: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-19 23:13:55 by Gerry

In article &lt;<a href="mailto:1153340910.629038.284450&#64;m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com" target="_blank">1153340910.629038.284450&#64;m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com</a>&gt;,
&lt;<a href="mailto:jeff29_b&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">jeff29_b&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt; Nate Najar wrote:
&gt; &gt; Strayhorn was gay too, now that I think about it.
&gt;
&gt; So is Gary Burton and Fred Hersch. Silly comments.

I started trying to think about who I'd played with that was gay and/or
which professionals I was aware of that were gay. Then I realized I'd
never really kept track of exactly who was shtuppiing what.

I wonder if there's a higher propensity among musicians to sire
children out of wedlock. Or to vegetarianism?

Haven't kept up with that either. I guess I'm just too self-absorbed.

--
When somebody says it's not about the money--it's about the money. -- H.L.
Mencken

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#19: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-19 23:14:05 by Joey Goldstein

Tony Williams was gay.

Dean wrote:
&gt; Bill Strayhan was gay. Gary Burton came out a couple years ago. Andy
&gt; Bey is also out. A google search yielded this web page:
&gt; <a href="http://www.afterelton.com/music/2006/1/jazz.html" target="_blank">http://www.afterelton.com/music/2006/1/jazz.html</a> which lists a couple
&gt; other jazz composers/performers.
&gt;
&gt; I toured with a group that include a gay man, back in 1974-75. There
&gt; was no tension within the group, as far as I could tell. He was open
&gt; with the band, and we did not care, but he was not open with the
&gt; public.
&gt;
&gt; <a href="mailto:john&#64;sportsmednutrition.com" target="_blank">john&#64;sportsmednutrition.com</a> wrote:
&gt;&gt; I was talking to a Jazz musician in the East Village, somehow the
&gt;&gt; topic of gays came up.
&gt;&gt; He was proud that there aren't any gay male jazz musicians, according
&gt;&gt; to him anyway.
&gt;&gt; He challenged me to name one. I was at a loss to think of one. He
&gt;&gt; wasn't the first
&gt;&gt; jazz musician to tell me that, either.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I read chess master Dr. Reuben Fine's book, &quot;The Psychology of the
&gt;&gt; Chess Player&quot;.
&gt;&gt; He said he only knew of one openly gay chess master.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Are Jazz and chess &quot;macho&quot;? I wonder if an openly gay Flamenco
&gt;&gt; guitarist would
&gt;&gt; be accepted in Spain?
&gt;


--
Joey Goldstein
<a href="http://www.joeygoldstein.com" target="_blank">http://www.joeygoldstein.com</a>
joegold AT sympatico DOT ca

Report this message

#20: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-19 23:15:41 by Joey Goldstein

Mark &amp; Steven Bornfeld wrote:
&gt; Johnny Asia wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; &quot;Formerly Sideways&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:twotone60&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">twotone60&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; wrote
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; All this proves is that said &quot;Jazz musician&quot; from the East Village is
&gt;&gt;&gt; a homophobe.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; That should not be a source of pride for anyone.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; True. A big jazz fan I met at work and I were talking
&gt;&gt; about Miles Davis one day, out of the blue he said &quot;It's a shame his
&gt;&gt; brother was gay&quot;, shaking his head, with a disgusted look on his face.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; OTOH, it's just weird that Miles's father was a dentist.
&gt;
&gt; Steve
&gt;
&gt;

Anti-dentites are everywhere. And rightfully so!

--
Joey Goldstein
<a href="http://www.joeygoldstein.com" target="_blank">http://www.joeygoldstein.com</a>
joegold AT sympatico DOT ca

Report this message

#21: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-19 23:16:34 by Joey Goldstein

Mark &amp; Steven Bornfeld wrote:
&gt; Sean wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; On 7/19/06 1:19 PM, in article wtwvg.105$<a href="mailto:Wf.86&#64;trndny01" target="_blank">Wf.86&#64;trndny01</a>, &quot;Mark &amp; Steven
&gt;&gt; Bornfeld&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:bornfeldmung&#64;dentaltwins.com" target="_blank">bornfeldmung&#64;dentaltwins.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Johnny Asia wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &quot;Formerly Sideways&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:twotone60&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">twotone60&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; wrote
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; All this proves is that said &quot;Jazz musician&quot; from the East Village
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; is a
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; homophobe.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; That should not be a source of pride for anyone.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; True. A big jazz fan I met at work and I were talking
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; about Miles Davis one day, out of the blue he said &quot;It's a shame his
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; brother
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; was gay&quot;, shaking his head, with a disgusted look on his face.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; OTOH, it's just weird that Miles's father was a dentist.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Steve
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Now all the anti-dentite comments will start.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Sooooo predictable.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;

D'oh

--
Joey Goldstein
<a href="http://www.joeygoldstein.com" target="_blank">http://www.joeygoldstein.com</a>
joegold AT sympatico DOT ca

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#22: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-19 23:29:41 by tombrown

<a href="mailto:john&#64;sportsmednutrition.com" target="_blank">john&#64;sportsmednutrition.com</a> wrote:
&gt; I was talking to a Jazz musician in the East Village, somehow the
&gt; topic of gays came up.
&gt; He was proud that there aren't any gay male jazz musicians, according
&gt; to him anyway.
&gt; He challenged me to name one. I was at a loss to think of one. He
&gt; wasn't the first
&gt; jazz musician to tell me that, either.

Complete nonsense. If anything, I would bet that there is a higher
percentage of homosexuality among musicians than among the general
population.

I could give you a list of gay jazz musicians, but what's the point?
It's nobody's business but their own.

&gt; Are Jazz and chess &quot;macho&quot;? I wonder if an openly gay Flamenco
&gt; guitarist would
&gt; be accepted in Spain?

I don't know about acceptance, but one of the top singer/guitarist
flamenco partnerships in Spain is a same sex couple.

Report this message

#23: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-19 23:31:37 by bornfeldmung

Joey Goldstein wrote:

&gt; Mark &amp; Steven Bornfeld wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Johnny Asia wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; &quot;Formerly Sideways&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:twotone60&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">twotone60&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; wrote
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; All this proves is that said &quot;Jazz musician&quot; from the East Village
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; is a homophobe.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; That should not be a source of pride for anyone.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; True. A big jazz fan I met at work and I were talking
&gt;&gt;&gt; about Miles Davis one day, out of the blue he said &quot;It's a shame his
&gt;&gt;&gt; brother was gay&quot;, shaking his head, with a disgusted look on his face.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; OTOH, it's just weird that Miles's father was a dentist.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Steve
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Anti-dentites are everywhere. And rightfully so!
&gt;

Shut up.

Thanks,
Steve

--
Mark &amp; Steven Bornfeld DDS
<a href="http://www.dentaltwins.com" target="_blank">http://www.dentaltwins.com</a>
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

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#24: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-19 23:40:43 by Bill Williams

Pat Smith wrote:

&gt; And I can't help but wonder what a person's sexuality has to do with playing
&gt; jazz??

Nothing at all in my opinion, Pat, from a musical point of view.

It is kind of obliquely interesting if you're interested in gay culture
or treatment of openly gay
people in the public eye.

Personally I don't imagine that a person's sexual preference has any
effect on their playing of jazz and I don't suppose the percentage of
gays in the jazz world is significantly lower than in the population in
general but I guess up to fairly recently gay jazz artists tended not
to go out of theri way to be open about their orientation as it would
limit their making a living in an already difficult profession.

Bill Williams

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#25: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-19 23:48:22 by bornfeldmung

Bill Williams wrote:

&gt; Pat Smith wrote:
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt;And I can't help but wonder what a person's sexuality has to do with playing
&gt;&gt;jazz??
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Nothing at all in my opinion, Pat, from a musical point of view.
&gt;
&gt; It is kind of obliquely interesting if you're interested in gay culture
&gt; or treatment of openly gay
&gt; people in the public eye.
&gt;
&gt; Personally I don't imagine that a person's sexual preference has any
&gt; effect on their playing of jazz and I don't suppose the percentage of
&gt; gays in the jazz world is significantly lower than in the population in
&gt; general but I guess up to fairly recently gay jazz artists tended not
&gt; to go out of theri way to be open about their orientation as it would
&gt; limit their making a living in an already difficult profession.
&gt;
&gt; Bill Williams
&gt;


Acceptable thinking about this subject seems to have changed. I picked
up and am now reading the old first edition of Harold Schonberg's &quot;Lives
of the Great Composers&quot;, and (discussing Tchaichovsky) while Schonberg
doesn't explicity credit (or blame) Tchaichovsky's sexual orientation
with the nature of his art, he repeatedly describes his work in feminine
terms. He goes on to opine (now I'm paraphrasing from memory) that
there are two types of (male) homosexuals; the type that hates women;
and the type that loves and identifies with them.
This book is only about 30 years old.

Steve

--
Mark &amp; Steven Bornfeld DDS
<a href="http://www.dentaltwins.com" target="_blank">http://www.dentaltwins.com</a>
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

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#26: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-19 23:56:48 by Tim McNamara

In article &lt;<a href="mailto:1153344581.056843.310430&#64;s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com" target="_blank">1153344581.056843.310430&#64;s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com</a>&gt;,
&quot;<a href="mailto:tombrown&#64;jhu.edu" target="_blank">tombrown&#64;jhu.edu</a>&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:tombrown&#64;jhu.edu" target="_blank">tombrown&#64;jhu.edu</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt; I could give you a list of gay jazz musicians, but what's the point?
&gt; It's nobody's business but their own.

Ta-daaa! We have the right answer. There are only two people whose
sexual partners are any business of mine- me and my wife. The rest of
the world can do whatever it wants.

Report this message

#27: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-20 00:02:40 by Joey Goldstein

<a href="mailto:john&#64;sportsmednutrition.com" target="_blank">john&#64;sportsmednutrition.com</a> wrote:
&gt; I was talking to a Jazz musician in the East Village, somehow the
&gt; topic of gays came up.
&gt; He was proud that there aren't any gay male jazz musicians, according
&gt; to him anyway.
&gt; He challenged me to name one. I was at a loss to think of one. He
&gt; wasn't the first
&gt; jazz musician to tell me that, either.
&gt;
&gt; I read chess master Dr. Reuben Fine's book, &quot;The Psychology of the
&gt; Chess Player&quot;.
&gt; He said he only knew of one openly gay chess master.
&gt;
&gt; Are Jazz and chess &quot;macho&quot;? I wonder if an openly gay Flamenco
&gt; guitarist would
&gt; be accepted in Spain?
&gt;

Sad but true... Homophobe that I am, I used to think and say the same
thing.
When I found out that Gary Burton and Tony Williams were both gay, my
homophobia lost much of its edge.

--
Joey Goldstein
<a href="http://www.joeygoldstein.com" target="_blank">http://www.joeygoldstein.com</a>
joegold AT sympatico DOT ca

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#28: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-20 00:13:56 by Joey Goldstein

Joey Goldstein wrote:
&gt; <a href="mailto:john&#64;sportsmednutrition.com" target="_blank">john&#64;sportsmednutrition.com</a> wrote:
&gt;&gt; I was talking to a Jazz musician in the East Village, somehow the
&gt;&gt; topic of gays came up.
&gt;&gt; He was proud that there aren't any gay male jazz musicians, according
&gt;&gt; to him anyway.
&gt;&gt; He challenged me to name one. I was at a loss to think of one. He
&gt;&gt; wasn't the first
&gt;&gt; jazz musician to tell me that, either.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I read chess master Dr. Reuben Fine's book, &quot;The Psychology of the
&gt;&gt; Chess Player&quot;.
&gt;&gt; He said he only knew of one openly gay chess master.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Are Jazz and chess &quot;macho&quot;? I wonder if an openly gay Flamenco
&gt;&gt; guitarist would
&gt;&gt; be accepted in Spain?
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Sad but true... Homophobe that I am, I used to think and say the same
&gt; thing.
&gt; When I found out that Gary Burton and Tony Williams were both gay, my
&gt; homophobia lost much of its edge.
&gt;

But, when I was a kid at Berklee and I found out that:

• Herbie was a Buddhist; I checked out Buddism thinking it might help my
playing.

• Mahavishnu was into Indian religions; I checked out Hinduism thinking
it might help my playing.

• Chick was a Scientologist; I checked out Scientology thinking it might
help my playing.

Yet, when I found out that so many great jazz players were gay I felt no
desire to check that out too.

[Not sure if that's horribly offensive or not, but it seems sort of
worth a laugh.]

Once a homophobe, always a homophobe, I guess.

--
Joey Goldstein
<a href="http://www.joeygoldstein.com" target="_blank">http://www.joeygoldstein.com</a>
joegold AT sympatico DOT ca

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#29: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-20 00:17:50 by tombrown

Joey Goldstein wrote:
&gt;
&gt; But, when I was a kid at Berklee and I found out that:
&gt;
&gt; =B7 Herbie was a Buddhist; I checked out Buddism thinking it might help my
&gt; playing.
&gt;
&gt; =B7 Mahavishnu was into Indian religions; I checked out Hinduism thinking
&gt; it might help my playing.
&gt;
&gt; =B7 Chick was a Scientologist; I checked out Scientology thinking it might
&gt; help my playing.
&gt;
&gt; Yet, when I found out that so many great jazz players were gay I felt no
&gt; desire to check that out too.

So, do you prefer to play on top of the beat, behind the beat, or can
you go both ways?

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#30: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-20 00:28:11 by copious

<a href="mailto:tombrown&#64;jhu.edu" target="_blank">tombrown&#64;jhu.edu</a> wrote:
&gt; Joey Goldstein wrote:
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; But, when I was a kid at Berklee and I found out that:
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; =B7 Herbie was a Buddhist; I checked out Buddism thinking it might help=
my
&gt; &gt; playing.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; =B7 Mahavishnu was into Indian religions; I checked out Hinduism thinki=
ng
&gt; &gt; it might help my playing.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; =B7 Chick was a Scientologist; I checked out Scientology thinking it mi=
ght
&gt; &gt; help my playing.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Yet, when I found out that so many great jazz players were gay I felt no
&gt; &gt; desire to check that out too.
&gt;
&gt; So, do you prefer to play on top of the beat, behind the beat, or can
&gt; you go both ways?

lol, cheeky.

Report this message

#31: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-20 00:36:33 by Mark Cleary

This thread could be the end of the group since I still follow it while
other groups I used to follow, became what I see going on now. It has zero
to do with jazz guitar and nothing to do with musical ability. Being one of
the more fundamentalist ( as my friend Lawson Stone says, who use to visit
the group), I think these subjects are best covered in other groups we gain
nothing in the thread. However, I am must say as my fundamentalist side does
take over, I think we are required to be celebant unless we are in a valid
marriage. Lets start a discussion on anthing other than this.



--
Mark Cleary
Hollenbeck Jazz Guitars the Finest
Handcarved Jazz Guitars
<a href="http://members.cox.net/ruthster/hollenbeck/" target="_blank">http://members.cox.net/ruthster/hollenbeck/</a>
&lt;<a href="mailto:tombrown&#64;jhu.edu" target="_blank">tombrown&#64;jhu.edu</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:<a href="mailto:1153347470.380496.105260&#64;i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com..." target="_blank">1153347470.380496.105260&#64;i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...</a>
Joey Goldstein wrote:
&gt;
&gt; But, when I was a kid at Berklee and I found out that:
&gt;
&gt; · Herbie was a Buddhist; I checked out Buddism thinking it might help my
&gt; playing.
&gt;
&gt; · Mahavishnu was into Indian religions; I checked out Hinduism thinking
&gt; it might help my playing.
&gt;
&gt; · Chick was a Scientologist; I checked out Scientology thinking it might
&gt; help my playing.
&gt;
&gt; Yet, when I found out that so many great jazz players were gay I felt no
&gt; desire to check that out too.

So, do you prefer to play on top of the beat, behind the beat, or can
you go both ways?

Report this message

#32: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-20 00:41:37 by El Kabong

&lt;<a href="mailto:jeff29_b&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">jeff29_b&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote in message

Silly comments.
&gt;

I agree. What I want to know is, how many country guitarists have had sex
with barnyard animals?

My family moved to Kentucky when I was 16, I heard
several farm boys talking openly about screwing pigs
and other animals. I'm not kidding.

+

Johnny Asia, Guitarist from the Future
<a href="http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=78840" target="_blank">http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=78840</a>


&quot;I say play your own way. Don't play what the public wants. You play what
you want and let the public pick up on what you're doing even if it does
take
them fifteen, twenty years.&quot; - Thelonious Monk



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from <a href="http://www.teranews.com" target="_blank">http://www.teranews.com</a>

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#33: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-20 01:01:31 by Jack Zucker

i agree with pat. this is very offensive

--
<a href="http://www.myspace.com/jackzucker" target="_blank">http://www.myspace.com/jackzucker</a>
<a href="http://www.sheetsofsound.net" target="_blank">http://www.sheetsofsound.net</a>
&quot;Pat Smith&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:pjazz&#64;pacbell.net" target="_blank">pjazz&#64;pacbell.net</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:mjwvg.70335$<a href="mailto:fb2.47126&#64;newssvr27.news.prodigy.net..." target="_blank">fb2.47126&#64;newssvr27.news.prodigy.net...</a>
&gt; Ya know... I find this totally offensive. I think your friend is an ass
&gt; for being proud that he thinks there are no gay jazz musicians. And I
&gt; can't help but wonder what a person's sexuality has to do with playing
&gt; jazz??
&gt;
&gt; <a href="mailto:john&#64;sportsmednutrition.com" target="_blank">john&#64;sportsmednutrition.com</a> wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; I was talking to a Jazz musician in the East Village, somehow the
&gt;&gt; topic of gays came up.
&gt;&gt; He was proud that there aren't any gay male jazz musicians, according
&gt;&gt; to him anyway.
&gt;&gt; He challenged me to name one. I was at a loss to think of one. He
&gt;&gt; wasn't the first
&gt;&gt; jazz musician to tell me that, either.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I read chess master Dr. Reuben Fine's book, &quot;The Psychology of the
&gt;&gt; Chess Player&quot;.
&gt;&gt; He said he only knew of one openly gay chess master.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Are Jazz and chess &quot;macho&quot;? I wonder if an openly gay Flamenco
&gt;&gt; guitarist would
&gt;&gt; be accepted in Spain?
&gt;&gt;
&gt;

Report this message

#34: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-20 01:15:15 by Kid Kool

Mark Cleary wrote:
&gt; This thread could be the end of the group since I still follow it while
&gt; other groups I used to follow, became what I see going on now. It has zero
&gt; to do with jazz guitar and nothing to do with musical ability. Being one of
&gt; the more fundamentalist ( as my friend Lawson Stone says, who use to visit
&gt; the group), I think these subjects are best covered in other groups we gain
&gt; nothing in the thread. However, I am must say as my fundamentalist side does
&gt; take over, I think we are required to be celebant unless we are in a valid
&gt; marriage.

I think Billy Strayhorn was always celebrant - you can hear it in his
music.

Report this message

#35: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-20 01:18:25 by Kid Kool

Joey Goldstein wrote:
&gt;
&gt; But, when I was a kid at Berklee and I found out that:
&gt;
&gt; =B7 Herbie was a Buddhist; I checked out Buddism thinking it might help my
&gt; playing.
&gt;
&gt; =B7 Mahavishnu was into Indian religions; I checked out Hinduism thinking
&gt; it might help my playing.
&gt;
&gt; =B7 Chick was a Scientologist; I checked out Scientology thinking it might
&gt; help my playing.
&gt;
&gt; Yet, when I found out that so many great jazz players were gay I felt no
&gt; desire to check that out too.
&gt;

When I realised how many great musicians were black I went out and
stocked up on Coppertone. My playing still sucks, but not that way, if
you understand me.

Report this message

#36: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-20 01:26:45 by Al

&gt; I think we are required to be celebant unless we are in a valid
&gt; marriage. Lets start a discussion on anthing other than this.

Hmmm... I'm guessing that if you REALLY wanted this thread to go away you
wouldn't try to end it with a statement like that one.

Report this message

#37: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-20 01:28:51 by tombrown

Jack A. Zucker wrote:
&gt; i agree with pat. this is very offensive

Is categorizing musicians by their sexual orientation any more
offensive than categorizing musicians by their race? For me, both
questions are of academic interest, as part of the social history of
jazz. But they are also both about equally offensive to me when such
categories are used to obscure musicians' individual accomplishments.

Report this message

#38: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-20 01:29:53 by tombrown

Johnny Asia wrote:
&gt;
&gt; I agree. What I want to know is, how many country guitarists have had sex
&gt; with barnyard animals?
&gt;
&gt; My family moved to Kentucky when I was 16, I heard
&gt; several farm boys talking openly about screwing pigs
&gt; and other animals. I'm not kidding.

Male pigs or female pigs?

Report this message

#39: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-20 01:38:32 by Gerry

In article &lt;Rtyvg.14006$<a href="mailto:rT6.966&#64;trnddc03" target="_blank">rT6.966&#64;trnddc03</a>&gt;, Mark Cleary
&lt;<a href="mailto:mcleary1&#64;verizondot.net" target="_blank">mcleary1&#64;verizondot.net</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt; This thread could be the end of the group since I still follow it
&gt; while other groups I used to follow, became what I see going on now.
&gt; It has zero to do with jazz guitar and nothing to do with musical
&gt; ability.

True, like about 40% of the throughput here.

&gt; Being one of the more fundamentalist ( as my friend Lawson Stone
&gt; says, who use to visit the group), I think these subjects are best
&gt; covered in other groups we gain nothing in the thread.

I think you're trying to say &quot;fundamentalist Christian&quot;. As there are
all kinds of fundmentals, including Mr. Stone's. But it is indeed
off-topic.

&gt; However, I am must say...

If you are appalled, I'd think you could forego participation.

&gt; ...as my fundamentalist side does take over, I think we are required
&gt; to be celebant unless we are in a valid marriage. Lets start a
&gt; discussion on anthing other than this.

Does your fundamenta side both account for your dismay and guide you to
participate?

--
The secret of managing is to keep the guys who hate you away from the guys who
are undecided. -- Casey Stengel

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#40: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-20 01:52:19 by peatea

<a href="mailto:john&#64;sportsmednutrition.com" target="_blank">john&#64;sportsmednutrition.com</a> wrote:
&gt; I was talking to a Jazz musician in the East Village, somehow the
&gt; topic of gays came up.
&gt; He was proud that there aren't any gay male jazz musicians, according
&gt; to him anyway.
&gt; He challenged me to name one. I was at a loss to think of one. He
&gt; wasn't the first
&gt; jazz musician to tell me that, either.


I was walkin' down the alley in the East Village around 3 AM and this
dude comes up to me and sayz &quot;Hey! I'm a gay jazz guitar player&quot;.
Of course I kicked his sissy ass!
I mean like what would you do?

Pt

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#41: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-20 02:04:13 by davidjl

&lt;<a href="mailto:john&#64;sportsmednutrition.com" target="_blank">john&#64;sportsmednutrition.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt; I read chess master Dr. Reuben Fine's book, &quot;The Psychology of the
&gt; Chess Player&quot;.
&gt; He said he only knew of one openly gay chess master.

When I was playing chess (I'm now 4 dan at Go), there were _TWO_ books
titled &quot;The Psychology of the Chess Player&quot;, one by a Russian (the guy who
was the trainer for the Russian national team), the other the book mentioned
above.

The one by the Russian was about chess (and had a lot of good advice about
how to organize one's thinking time over the board), the one mentioned above
was a really stupid book about sex. (FWIW, Reuben Fine was one of the best
US chess players of his period.)

Fortunately, there doesn't seem to be that kind of stupidity associated with
jazz guitar.

David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan

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#42: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-20 02:13:11 by Tim McNamara

In article &lt;<a href="mailto:1153351731.377527.303150&#64;m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com" target="_blank">1153351731.377527.303150&#64;m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com</a>&gt;,
&quot;<a href="mailto:tombrown&#64;jhu.edu" target="_blank">tombrown&#64;jhu.edu</a>&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:tombrown&#64;jhu.edu" target="_blank">tombrown&#64;jhu.edu</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt; Jack A. Zucker wrote:
&gt; &gt; i agree with pat. this is very offensive
&gt;
&gt; Is categorizing musicians by their sexual orientation any more
&gt; offensive than categorizing musicians by their race? For me, both
&gt; questions are of academic interest, as part of the social history of
&gt; jazz. But they are also both about equally offensive to me when such
&gt; categories are used to obscure musicians' individual accomplishments.

Good point. There's no reason IMHO to hide from facts- whether of
gender, race, religion, sexual orientation, etc. Those things are part
of peoples' lives, including jazz players. The problem is when our
judgment of musicians is based on those qualities and not their music.

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#43: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-20 02:38:01 by Jack Zucker

&lt;<a href="mailto:tombrown&#64;jhu.edu" target="_blank">tombrown&#64;jhu.edu</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:<a href="mailto:1153351731.377527.303150&#64;m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com..." target="_blank">1153351731.377527.303150&#64;m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...</a>
&gt; Jack A. Zucker wrote:
&gt;&gt; i agree with pat. this is very offensive
&gt;
&gt; Is categorizing musicians by their sexual orientation any more
&gt; offensive than categorizing musicians by their race?

They're both offensive, IMO.

--
<a href="http://www.myspace.com/jackzucker" target="_blank">http://www.myspace.com/jackzucker</a>
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#44: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-20 02:49:33 by Joey Goldstein

Johnny Asia wrote:
&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:jeff29_b&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">jeff29_b&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
&gt;
&gt; Silly comments.
&gt;
&gt; I agree. What I want to know is, how many country guitarists have had sex
&gt; with barnyard animals?
&gt;
&gt; My family moved to Kentucky when I was 16, I heard
&gt; several farm boys talking openly about screwing pigs
&gt; and other animals. I'm not kidding.

Now, if I was gay *that* would be offensive.
Comparing being gay to screwing pigs? C'mon now. Smarten up.


--
Joey Goldstein
<a href="http://www.joeygoldstein.com" target="_blank">http://www.joeygoldstein.com</a>
joegold AT sympatico DOT ca

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#45: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-20 03:30:58 by El Kabong

&quot;Joey Goldstein&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:nospam&#64;nowhere.net" target="_blank">nospam&#64;nowhere.net</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:e9mjuv$1vh$<a href="mailto:1&#64;news.datemas.de..." target="_blank">1&#64;news.datemas.de...</a>
&gt; Johnny Asia wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Silly comments.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I agree. What I want to know is, how many country guitarists have had sex
&gt;&gt; with barnyard animals?
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; My family moved to Kentucky when I was 16, I heard
&gt;&gt; several farm boys talking openly about screwing pigs
&gt;&gt; and other animals. I'm not kidding.
&gt;
&gt; Now, if I was gay *that* would be offensive.
&gt; Comparing being gay to screwing pigs?

Harrumph! Those Kentucky boys would be even more
offended!!




--
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#46: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-20 03:40:11 by Joey Goldstein

Johnny Asia wrote:
&gt; &quot;Joey Goldstein&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:nospam&#64;nowhere.net" target="_blank">nospam&#64;nowhere.net</a>&gt; wrote in message
&gt; news:e9mjuv$1vh$<a href="mailto:1&#64;news.datemas.de..." target="_blank">1&#64;news.datemas.de...</a>
&gt;&gt; Johnny Asia wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Silly comments.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; I agree. What I want to know is, how many country guitarists have had sex
&gt;&gt;&gt; with barnyard animals?
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; My family moved to Kentucky when I was 16, I heard
&gt;&gt;&gt; several farm boys talking openly about screwing pigs
&gt;&gt;&gt; and other animals. I'm not kidding.
&gt;&gt; Now, if I was gay *that* would be offensive.
&gt;&gt; Comparing being gay to screwing pigs?
&gt;
&gt; Harrumph! Those Kentucky boys would be even more
&gt; offended!!

Wow.



--
Joey Goldstein
<a href="http://www.joeygoldstein.com" target="_blank">http://www.joeygoldstein.com</a>
joegold AT sympatico DOT ca

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#47: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-20 03:57:20 by sbgtr2003

Being a &quot;gay jazz guitarist&quot; hasn't affected the way that I play rhythm
changes and it definitely never has anything to do with beastialty.
Dig?

Sheryl Bailey

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#48: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-20 04:09:47 by mylesgorham

If anybody has ever wondered, &quot;hmmm...why don't more high profile
players hang out here?&quot;...this thread might be the best example ever.

Myles

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#49: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-20 04:47:43 by bob r

in article <a href="mailto:1153361387.395747.294640&#64;i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com" target="_blank">1153361387.395747.294640&#64;i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com</a>,
<a href="mailto:mylesgorham&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">mylesgorham&#64;gmail.com</a> at <a href="mailto:mylesgorham&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">mylesgorham&#64;gmail.com</a> wrote on 7/19/06 10:09 PM:

&gt; If anybody has ever wondered, &quot;hmmm...why don't more high profile
&gt; players hang out here?&quot;...this thread might be the best example ever.
&gt;
&gt; Myles

Absolutely. A new low for RMMGJ.
--
Bob Russell
Web - <a href="http://www.bobrussellguitar.com" target="_blank">http://www.bobrussellguitar.com</a>
CDs - <a href="http://www.cdbaby.com/all/bobrussell" target="_blank">http://www.cdbaby.com/all/bobrussell</a>
Soundclick - <a href="http://www.soundclick.com/bobrussell" target="_blank">http://www.soundclick.com/bobrussell</a>

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#50: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-20 05:54:20 by cripe733

You go, girl!!!!

<a href="mailto:sbgtr2003&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">sbgtr2003&#64;yahoo.com</a> wrote:
&gt; Being a &quot;gay jazz guitarist&quot; hasn't affected the way that I play rhythm
&gt; changes and it definitely never has anything to do with beastialty.
&gt; Dig?
&gt;
&gt; Sheryl Bailey

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#51: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-20 06:10:25 by Tim McNamara

In article &lt;<a href="mailto:1153360640.842311.319360&#64;s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com" target="_blank">1153360640.842311.319360&#64;s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com</a>&gt;,
<a href="mailto:sbgtr2003&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">sbgtr2003&#64;yahoo.com</a> wrote:

&gt; Being a &quot;gay jazz guitarist&quot; hasn't affected the way that I play rhythm
&gt; changes and it definitely never has anything to do with beastialty.
&gt; Dig?
&gt;
&gt; Sheryl Bailey

She shoots, she scores!

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#52: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-20 09:14:39 by Bill Williams

Kid Kool wrote:
&gt; I think Billy Strayhorn was always celebrant - you can hear it in his
&gt; music.
I've been trying to become celebrant myself for a number of years now,
but feel I still haven't fully achieved my goal.
But I guess the only way is practise, practise, practise ...

Bill Williams

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#53: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-20 11:57:46 by oasysco

<a href="mailto:john&#64;sportsmednutrition.com" target="_blank">john&#64;sportsmednutrition.com</a> wrote:
&gt; I was talking to a Jazz musician in the East Village, somehow the
&gt; topic of gays came up.
&gt; He was proud that there aren't any gay male jazz musicians, according
&gt; to him anyway.
&gt; He challenged me to name one. I was at a loss to think of one. He
&gt; wasn't the first
&gt; jazz musician to tell me that, either.

There are plenty of gay jazz musicians... George Benson, Herb Ellis,
Jimmy Bruno... they certainly look happy to me when they play.

&gt;
&gt; I read chess master Dr. Reuben Fine's book, &quot;The Psychology of the
&gt; Chess Player&quot;.
&gt; He said he only knew of one openly gay chess master.
&gt;
&gt; Are Jazz and chess &quot;macho&quot;? I wonder if an openly gay Flamenco
&gt; guitarist would
&gt; be accepted in Spain?

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#54: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-20 13:31:15 by Myth

&quot;Johnny Asia&quot; &lt;poki_pongo AT yahoo.com&gt; skrev i en meddelelse
news:44bea7f6$0$29437$<a href="mailto:88260bb3&#64;free.teranews.com..." target="_blank">88260bb3&#64;free.teranews.com...</a>
&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:jeff29_b&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">jeff29_b&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
&gt;
&gt; Silly comments.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt; I agree. What I want to know is, how many country guitarists have had sex
&gt; with barnyard animals?
&gt;
&gt; My family moved to Kentucky when I was 16, I heard
&gt; several farm boys talking openly about screwing pigs
&gt; and other animals. I'm not kidding.
&gt;
I remember reading about a study, English IIRC, that showed that about 10%,
or more of the male rural population had tried sex with animals, Can't
provide an url though.
Reminds me of a joke:
Q: Whats the difference between Mick Jagger and a Scottish farmer?
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
A: Mick goes: Hey, you get offa mah cloud, the farmer goes: Hey, McCloud get
offa mah yew

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#55: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-20 13:33:20 by Tom Walls

In article &lt;<a href="mailto:1153337844.235296.52640&#64;h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com" target="_blank">1153337844.235296.52640&#64;h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com</a>&gt;,
<a href="mailto:john&#64;sportsmednutrition.com" target="_blank">john&#64;sportsmednutrition.com</a> says...
&gt;
&gt; I was talking to a Jazz musician in the East Village, somehow the
&gt; topic of gays came up.
&gt; He was proud that there aren't any gay male jazz musicians, according
&gt; to him anyway.
&gt; He challenged me to name one. I was at a loss to think of one. He
&gt; wasn't the first
&gt; jazz musician to tell me that, either.
&gt;
&gt; I read chess master Dr. Reuben Fine's book, &quot;The Psychology of the
&gt; Chess Player&quot;.
&gt; He said he only knew of one openly gay chess master.
&gt;
&gt; Are Jazz and chess &quot;macho&quot;? I wonder if an openly gay Flamenco
&gt; guitarist would
&gt; be accepted in Spain?
&gt;
&gt;
I know of a whole bunch of gay jazz musicians, and feel no need to
violate their privacy. For the record, neither &quot;gay&quot; nor &quot;macho&quot; are
mutually exclusive.
--
Tom Walls
the guy at the Temple of Zeus

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#56: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-20 13:34:31 by Tom Walls

In article &lt;<a href="mailto:UcOdnTVWIZv0TSPZnZ2dnUVZ_qadnZ2d&#64;adelphia.com" target="_blank">UcOdnTVWIZv0TSPZnZ2dnUVZ_qadnZ2d&#64;adelphia.com</a>&gt;,
<a href="mailto:jaz&#64;jackzucker.com" target="_blank">jaz&#64;jackzucker.com</a> says...
&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:tombrown&#64;jhu.edu" target="_blank">tombrown&#64;jhu.edu</a>&gt; wrote in message
&gt; news:<a href="mailto:1153351731.377527.303150&#64;m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com..." target="_blank">1153351731.377527.303150&#64;m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...</a>
&gt; &gt; Jack A. Zucker wrote:
&gt; &gt;&gt; i agree with pat. this is very offensive
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Is categorizing musicians by their sexual orientation any more
&gt; &gt; offensive than categorizing musicians by their race?
&gt;
&gt; They're both offensive, IMO.
&gt;
&gt;
We're on the same page.
--
Tom Walls
the guy at the Temple of Zeus

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#57: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-20 14:00:53 by El Kabong

&quot;Joey Goldstein&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:nospam&#64;nowhere.net" target="_blank">nospam&#64;nowhere.net</a>&gt; wrote in

&gt; Now, if I was gay *that* would be offensive.
&gt; Comparing being gay to screwing pigs? C'mon now. Smarten up.
&gt;

I didn't compare the two. C'mon now, lighten up.

--
+

Johnny Asia, Guitarist from the Future
<a href="http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=78840" target="_blank">http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=78840</a>


&quot;I say play your own way. Don't play what the public wants. You play what
you want and let the public pick up on what you're doing even if it does
take
them fifteen, twenty years.&quot; - Thelonious Monk





--
Posted via a free Usenet account from <a href="http://www.teranews.com" target="_blank">http://www.teranews.com</a>

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#58: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-20 15:07:28 by Mark.C.Guest

I can't believe I'm jumping into this one...

Ok, so is there a certain amount of addictive substances that one could
shoot up to counteract the gay jazz mojo? And what about gay black
musicians? Do they need lower dosages?

OK...I'm going to stop and pick up a guitar now.

I'm with Bob on this one...this is a *really* dumb and offensive
thread.

bob r wrote:
&gt; in article <a href="mailto:1153361387.395747.294640&#64;i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com" target="_blank">1153361387.395747.294640&#64;i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com</a>,
&gt; <a href="mailto:mylesgorham&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">mylesgorham&#64;gmail.com</a> at <a href="mailto:mylesgorham&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">mylesgorham&#64;gmail.com</a> wrote on 7/19/06 10:09 PM:
&gt;
&gt; &gt; If anybody has ever wondered, &quot;hmmm...why don't more high profile
&gt; &gt; players hang out here?&quot;...this thread might be the best example ever.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Myles
&gt;
&gt; Absolutely. A new low for RMMGJ.
&gt; --
&gt; Bob Russell
&gt; Web - <a href="http://www.bobrussellguitar.com" target="_blank">http://www.bobrussellguitar.com</a>
&gt; CDs - <a href="http://www.cdbaby.com/all/bobrussell" target="_blank">http://www.cdbaby.com/all/bobrussell</a>
&gt; Soundclick - <a href="http://www.soundclick.com/bobrussell" target="_blank">http://www.soundclick.com/bobrussell</a>

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#59: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-20 15:08:01 by Michael L Kankiewicz

I had a colleague who belonged to the Gay &amp; Lesbian Science Librarians
organization. I always though it was a bit specialized. I used to joke
with him- What's next? A sub-group for those who don't eat meat?

MK

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#60: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-20 15:17:54 by thom_j

&lt;<a href="mailto:tombrown&#64;jhu.edu" target="_blank">tombrown&#64;jhu.edu</a>&gt; wrote:
So, do you prefer to play on top of the beat, behind the beat, or can
you go both ways?
or maybe a &quot;backdoor man&quot;?? curious tee'..

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#61: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-20 15:20:11 by thom_j

&quot;Kid Kool&quot; wrote:
&gt; I think Billy Strayhorn was always celebrant - you can hear it in his
&gt; music.
isn't celebrant a condiment? curious tee'..

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#62: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-20 15:23:17 by thom_j

&quot;Pt&quot; wrote:
&gt; I was walkin' down the alley in the East Village around 3 AM and this
&gt; dude comes up to me and sayz &quot;Hey! I'm a gay jazz guitar player&quot;.
&gt; Of course I kicked his sissy ass!
&gt; I mean like what would you do?
Did you mean to type kicked or kissed? curious tee'.

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#63: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-20 16:03:11 by David Raleigh Arnold

On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 12:37:24 -0700, john wrote:

&gt;
&gt; I was talking to a Jazz musician in the East Village, somehow the
&gt; topic of gays came up.

I think that gayness should be treated as a public health issue rather
than a moral one. daveA

--
Free download of technical exercises worth a lifetime of practice:
&quot;Dynamic Guitar Technique&quot;: <a href="http://www.openguitar.com/instruction.html" target="_blank">http://www.openguitar.com/instruction.html</a>
Repertoire and/or licks are ammunition. Tech is a gun.
To email go to: <a href="http://www.openguitar.com/contact.html" target="_blank">http://www.openguitar.com/contact.html</a>

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#64: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-20 16:23:17 by Roger Houston

&quot;Tom K&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:tomkristensen&#64;webspeed.dk" target="_blank">tomkristensen&#64;webspeed.dk</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:44bf6978$0$3565$<a href="mailto:edfadb0f&#64;dread11.news.tele.dk..." target="_blank">edfadb0f&#64;dread11.news.tele.dk...</a>
&gt;&gt;
&gt; I remember reading about a study, English IIRC, that showed that about
&gt; 10%, or more of the male rural population had tried sex with animals,
&gt; Can't provide an url though.

<a href="http://www.sheepyhollow.com/photos/thumbs/redneckdate.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.sheepyhollow.com/photos/thumbs/redneckdate.jpg</a>

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#65: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-20 16:35:29 by bornfeldmung

thom_j. wrote:
&gt; &quot;Kid Kool&quot; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;I think Billy Strayhorn was always celebrant - you can hear it in his
&gt;&gt;music.
&gt;
&gt; isn't celebrant a condiment? curious tee'..
&gt;
&gt;

I thought it was an anti-inflammatory agent.

Steve

--
Mark &amp; Steven Bornfeld DDS
<a href="http://www.dentaltwins.com" target="_blank">http://www.dentaltwins.com</a>
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

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#66: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-20 16:36:27 by bornfeldmung

David Raleigh Arnold wrote:

&gt; On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 12:37:24 -0700, john wrote:
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt; I was talking to a Jazz musician in the East Village, somehow the
&gt;&gt;topic of gays came up.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; I think that gayness should be treated as a public health issue rather
&gt; than a moral one. daveA
&gt;

I think sexual orientation should be treated like hair color.

Steve

--
Mark &amp; Steven Bornfeld DDS
<a href="http://www.dentaltwins.com" target="_blank">http://www.dentaltwins.com</a>
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

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#67: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-20 16:38:38 by bornfeldmung

Mark &amp; Steven Bornfeld wrote:

&gt; David Raleigh Arnold wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 12:37:24 -0700, john wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; I was talking to a Jazz musician in the East Village, somehow the
&gt;&gt;&gt; topic of gays came up.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I think that gayness should be treated as a public health issue rather
&gt;&gt; than a moral one. daveA
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt; I think sexual orientation should be treated like hair color.
&gt;
&gt; Steve
&gt;

Too fast, too glib. Why does it need to be treated (unless you are a
celebrant)?

Steve

--
Mark &amp; Steven Bornfeld DDS
<a href="http://www.dentaltwins.com" target="_blank">http://www.dentaltwins.com</a>
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

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#68: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-20 17:57:20 by Dave M

&gt; i agree with pat. this is very offensive

I understand. But it's a good topic because the sooner we
all realize that gay people are everywhere, and that some
people we know, care about, and admire might be gay, and
that their being gay doesn't affect what it is we like about
them, the sooner we can move past this.

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#69: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-20 18:18:53 by Adam Bravo

&quot;Jack A. Zucker&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:jaz&#64;jackzucker.com" target="_blank">jaz&#64;jackzucker.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:<a href="mailto:UcOdnTVWIZv0TSPZnZ2dnUVZ_qadnZ2d&#64;adelphia.com..." target="_blank">UcOdnTVWIZv0TSPZnZ2dnUVZ_qadnZ2d&#64;adelphia.com...</a>
&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:tombrown&#64;jhu.edu" target="_blank">tombrown&#64;jhu.edu</a>&gt; wrote in message
&gt; news:<a href="mailto:1153351731.377527.303150&#64;m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com..." target="_blank">1153351731.377527.303150&#64;m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...</a>
&gt; &gt; Jack A. Zucker wrote:
&gt; &gt;&gt; i agree with pat. this is very offensive
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Is categorizing musicians by their sexual orientation any more
&gt; &gt; offensive than categorizing musicians by their race?
&gt;
&gt; They're both offensive, IMO.

Why so? People have races and sexual orientations; if certain groups show a
significant difference from the average, it's important to see why, because
in an ideal society, there wouldn't be such differences.

Sexual orientation is concievably more complex an issue than race, because
it is easier to hide sexual orientation.

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#70: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-20 18:42:35 by thom_j

&quot;David Raleigh Arnold&quot; wrote:
&gt; I think that gayness should be treated as a public health issue rather
&gt; than a moral one. daveA
why? do gays have public health issues we don't? curious tee'...

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#71: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-20 18:44:46 by thom_j

&quot;Mark &amp; Steven Bornfeld&quot; wrote:
&gt; Too fast, too glib. Why does it need to be treated (unless you are a
&gt; celebrant)?
I had some celebrant sprinkled on my Eggs Benedict this morning and
it is was good! I think? curious tee'..

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#72: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-20 19:27:40 by Jimmy Bruno

I don't think it matters at all. Nobody's business... who really gives
a shit about that

Snookie wrote:
&gt; Interesting question; I am not aware of any gay guitarists either but I do
&gt; know that 87% of all flute players are gay. This percentage rises when it
&gt; comes to piccolo players. Astounding isn't it!
&gt;
&gt; Snookie
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:john&#64;sportsmednutrition.com" target="_blank">john&#64;sportsmednutrition.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
&gt; news:<a href="mailto:1153337844.235296.52640&#64;h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com..." target="_blank">1153337844.235296.52640&#64;h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...</a>
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; I was talking to a Jazz musician in the East Village, somehow the
&gt; &gt; topic of gays came up.
&gt; &gt; He was proud that there aren't any gay male jazz musicians, according
&gt; &gt; to him anyway.
&gt; &gt; He challenged me to name one. I was at a loss to think of one. He
&gt; &gt; wasn't the first
&gt; &gt; jazz musician to tell me that, either.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; I read chess master Dr. Reuben Fine's book, &quot;The Psychology of the
&gt; &gt; Chess Player&quot;.
&gt; &gt; He said he only knew of one openly gay chess master.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Are Jazz and chess &quot;macho&quot;? I wonder if an openly gay Flamenco
&gt; &gt; guitarist would
&gt; &gt; be accepted in Spain?
&gt; &gt;

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#73: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-20 19:45:59 by El Kabong

&quot;jimmyb&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:jimmy&#64;jimmybruno.com" target="_blank">jimmy&#64;jimmybruno.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:<a href="mailto:1153416460.004427.191200&#64;75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com..." target="_blank">1153416460.004427.191200&#64;75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...</a>
&gt;I don't think it matters at all. Nobody's business... who really gives a
&gt;shit about that &gt;&gt;

Actually, the military junta that rules America and the world right now
depends on the votes and support of people who do give a shit about that.
Without homophobes, Bush would be nothing. Homophobes
and &quot;security moms&quot; are about all they've got left.
Between now and election time, there will be plenty
of &quot;terror warnings&quot; and political speeches about &quot;family values&quot;.



--
+

Johnny Asia, Guitarist from the Future
<a href="http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=78840" target="_blank">http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=78840</a>


&quot;I say play your own way. Don't play what the public wants. You play what
you want and let the public pick up on what you're doing even if it does
take
them fifteen, twenty years.&quot; - Thelonious Monk



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from <a href="http://www.teranews.com" target="_blank">http://www.teranews.com</a>

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#74: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-20 20:14:46 by Jack Zucker

Adam Bravo wrote:

&gt; Why so?

I don't know. I guess the stupid way I was raised to judge people by
something other than whether they were black, white, yellow with green
polkadots, gay, straight or otherwise.

Content of their character or something to that effect...

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#75: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-20 20:49:18 by bornfeldmung

Adam Bravo wrote:

&gt; &quot;Jack A. Zucker&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:jaz&#64;jackzucker.com" target="_blank">jaz&#64;jackzucker.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
&gt; news:<a href="mailto:UcOdnTVWIZv0TSPZnZ2dnUVZ_qadnZ2d&#64;adelphia.com..." target="_blank">UcOdnTVWIZv0TSPZnZ2dnUVZ_qadnZ2d&#64;adelphia.com...</a>
&gt;
&gt;&gt;&lt;<a href="mailto:tombrown&#64;jhu.edu" target="_blank">tombrown&#64;jhu.edu</a>&gt; wrote in message
&gt;&gt;news:<a href="mailto:1153351731.377527.303150&#64;m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com..." target="_blank">1153351731.377527.303150&#64;m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...</a>
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;Jack A. Zucker wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;i agree with pat. this is very offensive
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;Is categorizing musicians by their sexual orientation any more
&gt;&gt;&gt;offensive than categorizing musicians by their race?
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;They're both offensive, IMO.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Why so? People have races and sexual orientations; if certain groups show a
&gt; significant difference from the average, it's important to see why, because
&gt; in an ideal society, there wouldn't be such differences.
&gt;
&gt; Sexual orientation is concievably more complex an issue than race, because
&gt; it is easier to hide sexual orientation.
&gt;
&gt;

I don't see the offensiveness either. Sure, the guy in the E. Village
was a jerk (not to mention wrong).
The bigger picture is that there is a tacit acceptance that celebrities
can no longer have a private life. If the interest is intrusive it's
wrong of course. But there have been musicians who's sexual orientation
has very much been a part of their public lives.
When sexual orientation is no longer a political issue (I know, dream
on) there won't be a prurient interest in this part of peoples's lives.

Steve

--
Mark &amp; Steven Bornfeld DDS
<a href="http://www.dentaltwins.com" target="_blank">http://www.dentaltwins.com</a>
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

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#76: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-20 20:49:59 by bornfeldmung

thom_j. wrote:

&gt; &quot;Mark &amp; Steven Bornfeld&quot; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;Too fast, too glib. Why does it need to be treated (unless you are a
&gt;&gt;celebrant)?
&gt;
&gt; I had some celebrant sprinkled on my Eggs Benedict this morning and
&gt; it is was good! I think? curious tee'..
&gt;
&gt;
Can you go for hours now?

Steve

--
Mark &amp; Steven Bornfeld DDS
<a href="http://www.dentaltwins.com" target="_blank">http://www.dentaltwins.com</a>
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

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#77: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-20 21:24:07 by tombrown

Johnny Asia wrote:
&gt;
&gt; Actually, the military junta that rules America and the world right now
&gt; depends on the votes and support of people who do give a shit about that.
&gt; Without homophobes, Bush would be nothing. Homophobes
&gt; and &quot;security moms&quot; are about all they've got left.
&gt; Between now and election time, there will be plenty
&gt; of &quot;terror warnings&quot; and political speeches about &quot;family values&quot;.

Good point. Where I live, there was an anti-gay billboard on the
interstate that runs through the middle of town as part of our last
election. It was placed by some out-of-town activist, but he knew it
would be effective here. Guns and gays are the two big issues for a
plurality of rednecks.

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#78: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-20 22:10:50 by Holger Weber

&quot;Adam Bravo&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:mradam&#64;cox.net" target="_blank">mradam&#64;cox.net</a>&gt; schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:p6Ovg.2691$<a href="mailto:Mz3.1874&#64;fed1read07..." target="_blank">Mz3.1874&#64;fed1read07...</a>
&gt; &quot;Jack A. Zucker&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:jaz&#64;jackzucker.com" target="_blank">jaz&#64;jackzucker.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
&gt; news:<a href="mailto:UcOdnTVWIZv0TSPZnZ2dnUVZ_qadnZ2d&#64;adelphia.com..." target="_blank">UcOdnTVWIZv0TSPZnZ2dnUVZ_qadnZ2d&#64;adelphia.com...</a>
&gt;&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:tombrown&#64;jhu.edu" target="_blank">tombrown&#64;jhu.edu</a>&gt; wrote in message
&gt;&gt; news:<a href="mailto:1153351731.377527.303150&#64;m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com..." target="_blank">1153351731.377527.303150&#64;m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...</a>
&gt;&gt; &gt; Jack A. Zucker wrote:
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; i agree with pat. this is very offensive
&gt;&gt; &gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt; Is categorizing musicians by their sexual orientation any more
&gt;&gt; &gt; offensive than categorizing musicians by their race?
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; They're both offensive, IMO.
&gt;
&gt; Why so? People have races and sexual orientations; if certain groups show
&gt; a
&gt; significant difference from the average, it's important to see why,
&gt; because
&gt; in an ideal society, there wouldn't be such differences.
&gt;
&gt; Sexual orientation is concievably more complex an issue than race, because
&gt; it is easier to hide sexual orientation.

I wonder if folks who have no problem discussing other people's sexual
preferences would be as willing disussing their own or their partner's
preferences on this NG, or have them discussed by others...

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#79: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-20 22:16:51 by El Kabong

&quot;Holger Weber&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:nospa&#64;nospam.de" target="_blank">nospa&#64;nospam.de</a>&gt; wrote in message
&gt; I wonder if folks who have no problem discussing other people's sexual
&gt; preferences would be as willing disussing their own or their partner's
&gt; preferences on this NG, or have them discussed by others...

Still heterosexual, despite numerous painful experiences
with women. Most of them were heterosexual, a few were bisexual. All of them
considered me to be an amazingly good lover, many said I was the best.

What's so traumatic about that?

--
+

Johnny Asia, Guitarist from the Future
<a href="http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=78840" target="_blank">http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=78840</a>


&quot;I say play your own way. Don't play what the public wants. You play what
you want and let the public pick up on what you're doing even if it does
take
them fifteen, twenty years.&quot; - Thelonious Monk



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#80: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-20 22:31:55 by Holger Weber

&quot;Johnny Asia&quot; &lt;poki_pongo AT yahoo.com&gt; schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:44bfd78a$0$2195$<a href="mailto:88260bb3&#64;free.teranews.com..." target="_blank">88260bb3&#64;free.teranews.com...</a>
&gt; &quot;Holger Weber&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:nospa&#64;nospam.de" target="_blank">nospa&#64;nospam.de</a>&gt; wrote in message
&gt;&gt; I wonder if folks who have no problem discussing other people's sexual
&gt;&gt; preferences would be as willing disussing their own or their partner's
&gt;&gt; preferences on this NG, or have them discussed by others...
&gt;
&gt; Still heterosexual, despite numerous painful experiences
&gt; with women. Most of them were heterosexual, a few were bisexual. All of
&gt; them considered me to be an amazingly good lover, many said I was the
&gt; best.
&gt;
&gt; What's so traumatic about that?

Post some clips.

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#81: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-20 22:33:06 by El Kabong

&quot;Holger Weber&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:nospa&#64;nospam.de" target="_blank">nospa&#64;nospam.de</a>&gt; wrote in message
&gt; Post some clips.


Now, that is a funny reply!

--
+

Johnny Asia, Guitarist from the Future
<a href="http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=78840" target="_blank">http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=78840</a>


&quot;I say play your own way. Don't play what the public wants. You play what
you want and let the public pick up on what you're doing even if it does
take
them fifteen, twenty years.&quot; - Thelonious Monk



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from <a href="http://www.teranews.com" target="_blank">http://www.teranews.com</a>

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#82: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-20 22:41:53 by tombrown

Johnny Asia wrote:
&gt;
&gt; Still heterosexual, despite numerous painful experiences
&gt; with women. Most of them were heterosexual, a few were bisexual. All of them
&gt; considered me to be an amazingly good lover, many said I was the best.

That extra attention to customer satisfaction is what separates the
high-end call girls from the common streetwalkers.

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#83: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-20 23:44:20 by Adam Bravo

&quot;Jack Zucker&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:jaz&#64;jackzucker.com" target="_blank">jaz&#64;jackzucker.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:<a href="mailto:1153419286.608710.81720&#64;h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com..." target="_blank">1153419286.608710.81720&#64;h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...</a>
&gt; Adam Bravo wrote:
&gt;
&gt; &gt; Why so?
&gt;
&gt; I don't know. I guess the stupid way I was raised to judge people by
&gt; something other than whether they were black, white, yellow with green
&gt; polkadots, gay, straight or otherwise.
&gt;
&gt; Content of their character or something to that effect...

Oooh, we tread dangerous ground when discussion becomes judgement. Isn't
that kind of the problem with today's political climate?

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#84: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-21 00:37:55 by El Kabong

&lt;<a href="mailto:tombrown&#64;jhu.edu" target="_blank">tombrown&#64;jhu.edu</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:<a href="mailto:1153428113.102038.235750&#64;h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com..." target="_blank">1153428113.102038.235750&#64;h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...</a>
&gt; Johnny Asia wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Still heterosexual, despite numerous painful experiences
&gt;&gt; with women. Most of them were heterosexual, a few were bisexual. All of
&gt;&gt; them
&gt;&gt; considered me to be an amazingly good lover, many said I was the best.
&gt;
&gt; That extra attention to customer satisfaction is what separates the
&gt; high-end call girls from the common streetwalkers.
&gt;


Hey! You made fun of my sexuality! That's not allowed!

--
+

Johnny Asia, Guitarist from the Future
<a href="http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=78840" target="_blank">http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=78840</a>


&quot;I say play your own way. Don't play what the public wants. You play what
you want and let the public pick up on what you're doing even if it does
take
them fifteen, twenty years.&quot; - Thelonious Monk



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from <a href="http://www.teranews.com" target="_blank">http://www.teranews.com</a>

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#85: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-21 00:42:09 by Tim McNamara

In article &lt;<a href="mailto:1153423447.628148.35150&#64;p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com" target="_blank">1153423447.628148.35150&#64;p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com</a>&gt;,
&quot;<a href="mailto:tombrown&#64;jhu.edu" target="_blank">tombrown&#64;jhu.edu</a>&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:tombrown&#64;jhu.edu" target="_blank">tombrown&#64;jhu.edu</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt; Johnny Asia wrote:
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Actually, the military junta that rules America and the world right
&gt; &gt; now depends on the votes and support of people who do give a shit
&gt; &gt; about that. Without homophobes, Bush would be nothing. Homophobes
&gt; &gt; and &quot;security moms&quot; are about all they've got left. Between now and
&gt; &gt; election time, there will be plenty of &quot;terror warnings&quot; and
&gt; &gt; political speeches about &quot;family values&quot;.
&gt;
&gt; Good point. Where I live, there was an anti-gay billboard on the
&gt; interstate that runs through the middle of town as part of our last
&gt; election. It was placed by some out-of-town activist, but he knew it
&gt; would be effective here. Guns and gays are the two big issues for a
&gt; plurality of rednecks.

One of the local independent candidates has identified the &quot;5 G's&quot; that
prevent politicians on the left and the right from actually getting
anything done: God, Guns, Gays, Gambling and Gynecology.

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#86: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-21 01:45:11 by Roger Houston

What's &quot;Gay jazz&quot;, anyway?

Is it smooth?

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#87: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-21 04:21:49 by thom_j

&quot;Mark &amp; Steven Bornfeld&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:bornfeldmung&#64;dentaltwins.com" target="_blank">bornfeldmung&#64;dentaltwins.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:rfQvg.7318$<a href="mailto:Lw.1467&#64;trnddc07..." target="_blank">Lw.1467&#64;trnddc07...</a>
&gt; thom_j. wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; &quot;Mark &amp; Steven Bornfeld&quot; wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;Too fast, too glib. Why does it need to be treated (unless you are a
&gt;&gt;&gt;celebrant)?
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I had some celebrant sprinkled on my Eggs Benedict this morning and
&gt;&gt; it is was good! I think? curious tee'..
&gt; Can you go for hours now?
thats only if I add excyte.com and then I smile alot too.. no'spermazoa
tee'..
&gt; Steve
&gt;
&gt; --
&gt; Mark &amp; Steven Bornfeld DDS
&gt; <a href="http://www.dentaltwins.com" target="_blank">http://www.dentaltwins.com</a>
&gt; Brooklyn, NY
&gt; 718-258-5001

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#88: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-21 08:47:21 by guitarmaniax

&lt;&lt;&lt; From: <a href="mailto:houstonr&#64;nasa.org" target="_blank">houstonr&#64;nasa.org</a> (Roger=A0Houston)
&lt;&lt;&lt; What's &quot;Gay jazz&quot;, anyway?
Is it smooth? &gt;&gt;&gt;

That probably depends on whether or not a condom is used..

And why is this thread more offensive that the &quot;Girl Guitarist&quot; thread
from a week or so ago ?

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#89: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-21 13:41:56 by Formerly Sideways

Peter Huggins wrote:

&gt; And why is this thread more offensive that the &quot;Girl Guitarist&quot; thread
&gt; from a week or so ago ?

I don't remember the thread in question. It was probably lame, as
well.

However, this thread started out on a very offensive note: some moron
expressed pride in the fact that he couldn't name a gay jazz guitarist.
The original poster apparently did not call him out on his homophobia,
but instead explored the idea as if it were worth consideration.

You may not find that offensive, but I do. That and many of the
juvenile attitudes and pathetic attempts at humor that have ensued are
pretty damn sad imo.

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#90: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-21 18:18:17 by kitekrazy

Bill Williams wrote:
&gt; Pat Smith wrote:
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt;And I can't help but wonder what a person's sexuality has to do with playing
&gt;&gt;jazz??
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Nothing at all in my opinion, Pat, from a musical point of view.
&gt;
&gt; It is kind of obliquely interesting if you're interested in gay culture
&gt; or treatment of openly gay
&gt; people in the public eye.
&gt;
&gt; Personally I don't imagine that a person's sexual preference has any
&gt; effect on their playing of jazz and I don't suppose the percentage of
&gt; gays in the jazz world is significantly lower than in the population in
&gt; general but I guess up to fairly recently gay jazz artists tended not
&gt; to go out of theri way to be open about their orientation as it would
&gt; limit their making a living in an already difficult profession.
&gt;
&gt; Bill Williams
&gt;

Threads like these are usually started to create an off topic agenda
or trolling so someone can label other people homophobes.

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#91: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-21 18:48:13 by woland99

&gt; He was proud that there aren't any gay male jazz musicians, according
&gt; to him anyway.
&gt; He challenged me to name one. I was at a loss to think of one.

Cole Porter
Billy Strayhorn
Ma Rainey
Bessie Smith
Billy Tipton

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#92: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-22 01:00:30 by decapriology1

Must be the same so called jazz musicians that supposedly put down
anyone who knows a little theory (or anyone who doesn't). This thread
is as lame as that one was. What does sexual preferance have to do with
playing jazz?

TD




<a href="mailto:john&#64;sportsmednutrition.com" target="_blank">john&#64;sportsmednutrition.com</a> wrote:
&gt; I was talking to a Jazz musician in the East Village, somehow the
&gt; topic of gays came up.
&gt; He was proud that there aren't any gay male jazz musicians, according
&gt; to him anyway.
&gt; He challenged me to name one. I was at a loss to think of one. He
&gt; wasn't the first
&gt; jazz musician to tell me that, either.
&gt;
&gt; I read chess master Dr. Reuben Fine's book, &quot;The Psychology of the
&gt; Chess Player&quot;.
&gt; He said he only knew of one openly gay chess master.
&gt;
&gt; Are Jazz and chess &quot;macho&quot;? I wonder if an openly gay Flamenco
&gt; guitarist would
&gt; be accepted in Spain?

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#93: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-22 03:22:16 by pmfan57

<a href="mailto:decapriology1&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">decapriology1&#64;hotmail.com</a> wrote:
&gt; Must be the same so called jazz musicians that supposedly put down
&gt; anyone who knows a little theory (or anyone who doesn't). This thread
&gt; is as lame as that one was. What does sexual preferance have to do with
&gt; playing jazz?
&gt;
&gt; TD

Lamest thread since I've been reading this group in 1998. The OP's
aren't even regular posters. They just showed up, said some ridiculous
stuff, and left. Regulars should have known better. This is up there
with that Eastern European guy critcizing the Donna Lee video by Jack.

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#94: Re: Gay jazz guitarists?

Posted on 2006-07-22 06:52:29 by Joey Goldstein

pmfan57 wrote:
&gt; <a href="mailto:decapriology1&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">decapriology1&#64;hotmail.com</a> wrote:
&gt;&gt; Must be the same so called jazz musicians that supposedly put down
&gt;&gt; anyone who knows a little theory (or anyone who doesn't). This thread
&gt;&gt; is as lame as that one was. What does sexual preferance have to do with
&gt;&gt; playing jazz?
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; TD
&gt;
&gt; Lamest thread since I've been reading this group in 1998.

You should have been here in '96.
Have a GoogleGroups search of this group for &quot;Daddio&quot;.

&gt; The OP's
&gt; aren't even regular posters. They just showed up, said some ridiculous
&gt; stuff, and left. Regulars should have known better. This is up there
&gt; with that Eastern European guy critcizing the Donna Lee video by Jack.
&gt;


--
Joey Goldstein
<a href="http://www.joeygoldstein.com" target="_blank">http://www.joeygoldstein.com</a>
joegold AT sympatico DOT ca

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