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#1: Question for Americans using their amps with N. European current

Posted on 2006-07-18 22:13:09 by joel fass

Is there a way besides using a heavy step-up transformer to use an
American amp with N. European 225 ohm current?

It's a question of weight. If I bring my light amp to a country with
that system and have to use a heavy transformer I may as well buy a
light amp there. It would be good to have one amp and an alternative
current changer.

Solutions?

Thanks in advance.

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#2: Re: Question for Americans using their amps with N. European current

Posted on 2006-07-18 22:24:50 by sinjen

joel fass wrote:
> Is there a way besides using a heavy step-up transformer to use an
> American amp with N. European 225 ohm current?
>
> It's a question of weight. If I bring my light amp to a country with
> that system and have to use a heavy transformer I may as well buy a
> light amp there. It would be good to have one amp and an alternative
> current changer.

First, double-check your amp to be sure there's not a 110/220 switch in
an obscure location (near where the power cord enters, almost always).

--
St. John
Tonight's the night: Sleep in a eucalyptus tree.

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#3: Re: Question for Americans using their amps with N. European current

Posted on 2006-07-18 22:33:05 by tombrown

joel fass wrote:
> Is there a way besides using a heavy step-up transformer to use an
> American amp with N. European 225 ohm current?
>
> It's a question of weight. If I bring my light amp to a country with
> that system and have to use a heavy transformer I may as well buy a
> light amp there. It would be good to have one amp and an alternative
> current changer.
>
> Solutions?

1. A motorcycle battery. Buy one over there, then unload it before you
come home.

2. Borrow or rent an amp once you get there.

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#4: Re: Question for Americans using their amps with N. European current

Posted on 2006-07-18 23:07:52 by ottguit

Rent an amp.
Bg

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#5: Re: Question for Americans using their amps with N. European current

Posted on 2006-07-19 00:14:01 by joel fass

<a href="mailto:tombrown&#64;jhu.edu" target="_blank">tombrown&#64;jhu.edu</a> wrote:
&gt;
&gt; 1. A motorcycle battery. Buy one over there, then unload it before you
&gt; come home.
&gt; Approximate weight?
&gt;

Report this message

#6: Re: Question for Americans using their amps with N. European current

Posted on 2006-07-19 00:16:39 by joel fass

St. John Smythe wrote:
&gt; j
&gt; First, double-check your amp to be sure there's not a 110/220 switch in
&gt; an obscure location (near where the power cord enters, almost always).
&gt;

I'm going to unload my current heavy amp in favor of something lighter
like the new Jazz Kats. That's an excellent suggestion, though, about
the switch. Do you know of any light amps comparable to Jazz Kats that
have such switches? That might be the answer right there.

Report this message

#7: Re: Question for Americans using their amps with N. European current

Posted on 2006-07-19 01:07:05 by BFender

I think you Volt, not Ohm

--
Peace,
/bf/

&quot;joel fass&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:fasstrack&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">fasstrack&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:<a href="mailto:1153253588.933396.12090&#64;b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com..." target="_blank">1153253588.933396.12090&#64;b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...</a>
&gt; Is there a way besides using a heavy step-up transformer to use an
&gt; American amp with N. European 225 ohm current?
&gt;
&gt; It's a question of weight. If I bring my light amp to a country with
&gt; that system and have to use a heavy transformer I may as well buy a
&gt; light amp there. It would be good to have one amp and an alternative
&gt; current changer.
&gt;
&gt; Solutions?
&gt;
&gt; Thanks in advance.
&gt;

Report this message

#8: Re: Question for Americans using their amps with N. European current

Posted on 2006-07-19 01:09:00 by BFender

The JazzKat has switch-selectable 110/220 voltage. Are you looking for
something other than JazzKat?

/bf/

&quot;joel fass&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:fasstrack&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">fasstrack&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:<a href="mailto:1153260999.777466.196800&#64;75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com..." target="_blank">1153260999.777466.196800&#64;75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...</a>
&gt;
&gt; St. John Smythe wrote:
&gt;&gt; j
&gt;&gt; First, double-check your amp to be sure there's not a 110/220 switch in
&gt;&gt; an obscure location (near where the power cord enters, almost always).
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt; I'm going to unload my current heavy amp in favor of something lighter
&gt; like the new Jazz Kats. That's an excellent suggestion, though, about
&gt; the switch. Do you know of any light amps comparable to Jazz Kats that
&gt; have such switches? That might be the answer right there.
&gt;

Report this message

#9: Re: Question for Americans using their amps with N. European current

Posted on 2006-07-19 01:27:15 by tombrown

joel fass wrote:
&gt; <a href="mailto:tombrown&#64;jhu.edu" target="_blank">tombrown&#64;jhu.edu</a> wrote:
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; 1. A motorcycle battery. Buy one over there, then unload it before you
&gt; &gt; come home.
&gt;
&gt; Approximate weight?

Depends what you need. A wheelchair or golf cart battery will weigh 30
pounds. Then there are batteries at every weight all the way down to
your digital watch size. If you have a solid state amp, modifying it
for battery use should be simple. The lower powered the amp, the more
hours you get before a recharge. You can buy amps that already are
designed to run off batteries. I think Fender and Carvin both make
them.

If cartage is the issue, I'd buy a low-end solid state amp over there,
and then unload it at the end of the trip.

You could probably find someone to loan you gratis or rent you a nicer
amp real cheap, in exchange for personal services that someone in
Europe might want from an American, like VAT-free CD shopping in the
states, a place to stay in NYC while on vacation, etc.

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#10: Re: Question for Americans using their amps with N. European current

Posted on 2006-07-19 02:00:49 by jazzgeetar

There's the Fender Jazzmaster Ultralight that has a voltage selector
switch. I love mine, great, powerful, tiny amp.

joel fass wrote:
&gt; Do you know of any light amps comparable to Jazz Kats that
&gt; have such switches? That might be the answer right there.

Report this message

#11: Re: Question for Americans using their amps with N. European current

Posted on 2006-07-19 02:22:30 by resophil

Geez guys, this is not the first time anybody has gone to Europe and
wanted to use American appliances over there! There's a burgeoning
industry building convertors. This might be a good place to start
learning about them:
<a href="http://www.elect-spec.com/voltage_converter.htm#Models" target="_blank">http://www.elect-spec.com/voltage_converter.htm#Models</a>

An amp doesn't have as heavy a current (amperage) requirement as say,
anything with an electric motor. Check the plate on the chassis of the
amp to find out what current requirements for the unit are. Buy a
convertor that will handle your amp, and as an added bonus, you'll be
able to plug in your electric razor too.

Your statement about 220 ohm is false! Ohms measure resistance in a
circuit. Your talking about voltage; 117 standard in North America
(nominal 110), 220 in Europe. The bigger problem for things with
electric motors of some kind, is frequency. In N.A., standard wall
current is at 60 Hz. In Europe, it's 50 Hz. This isn't that important
to something like an amp, but an American made electric motor will run
16% slower when plugged into a convertor in Europe. Frequency
convertors are available too.

-Phil

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#12: Re: Question for Americans using their amps with N. European current

Posted on 2006-07-19 03:53:13 by joel fass

jazzgeetar wrote:
&gt; There's the Fender Jazzmaster Ultralight that has a voltage selector
&gt; switch. I love mine, great, powerful, tiny amp.
&gt;
&gt; joel fass wrote:
&gt; &gt; Do you know of any light amps comparable to Jazz Kats that
&gt; &gt; have such switches? That might be the answer right there.

Which is the cheaper of the two (jazzmaster/jazz kat)?

And thanks loads to both you guys and all the rest.

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#13: Re: Question for Americans using their amps with N. European current

Posted on 2006-07-19 03:58:19 by joel fass

<a href="mailto:tombrown&#64;jhu.edu" target="_blank">tombrown&#64;jhu.edu</a> wrote:
&gt; joel fass wrote:
&gt; &gt; <a href="mailto:tombrown&#64;jhu.edu" target="_blank">tombrown&#64;jhu.edu</a> wrote:
&gt; &gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; &gt; 1. A motorcycle battery. Buy one over there, then unload it before you
&gt; &gt; &gt; come home.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Approximate weight?
&gt;
&gt; Depends what you need. A wheelchair or golf cart battery will weigh 30
&gt; pounds. Then there are batteries at every weight all the way down to
&gt; your digital watch size. If you have a solid state amp, modifying it
&gt; for battery use should be simple. The lower powered the amp, the more
&gt; hours you get before a recharge. You can buy amps that already are
&gt; designed to run off batteries. I think Fender and Carvin both make
&gt; them.
&gt;
&gt; If cartage is the issue, I'd buy a low-end solid state amp over there,
&gt; and then unload it at the end of the trip.
&gt;
&gt; You could probably find someone to loan you gratis or rent you a nicer
&gt; amp real cheap, in exchange for personal services that someone in
&gt; Europe might want from an American, like VAT-free CD shopping in the
&gt; states, a place to stay in NYC while on vacation, etc.

I'm not going anywhere on vacation, but talking about a possible move.
If I buy anything it'll be here, as the dollar is getting its ass
kicked by the Euro. I already will have a battery amp for outdoor
playing and don't otherwise want to get involved with batteries..
Cheap(est, but still of high-quality), light, portable, headache-free
is what I want.

Thanks for your answer. I really appreciate the input.

Report this message

#14: Re: Question for Americans using their amps with N. European current

Posted on 2006-07-19 05:39:10 by ottguit

joel fass wrote:
&gt; St. John Smythe wrote:
&gt; &gt; j
&gt; &gt; First, double-check your amp to be sure there's not a 110/220 switch in
&gt; &gt; an obscure location (near where the power cord enters, almost always).
&gt; &gt;
&gt;
&gt; I'm going to unload my current heavy amp in favor of something lighter
&gt; like the new Jazz Kats. That's an excellent suggestion, though, about
&gt; the switch. Do you know of any light amps comparable to Jazz Kats that
&gt; have such switches? That might be the answer right there.

The JazzzKat has that switch.
Bg

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#15: Re: Question for Americans using their amps with N. European current

Posted on 2006-07-19 05:44:54 by ottguit

&gt; Which is the cheaper of the two (jazzmaster/jazz kat)?
You can search out prices Online, the JazzKat is amp &amp; speaker Cpmbo,
but the Jazzmaster is only an amp, and requires a Speaker cab,which you
could of course rent over there!
Bg

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#16: Re: Question for Americans using their amps with N. European current

Posted on 2006-07-19 05:48:04 by ottguit

&gt; I'm not going anywhere on vacation, but talking about a possible move.
&gt; If I buy anything it'll be here, as the dollar is getting its ass
&gt; kicked by the Euro. I already will have a battery amp for outdoor
&gt; playing and don't otherwise want to get involved with batteries..
&gt; Cheap(est, but still of high-quality), light, portable, headache-free
&gt; is what I want.
&gt;
&gt; Thanks for your answer. I really appreciate the input.

If it's not just for a trip/gig, then you can buy a Polytone amp here
and have it converted,
I'm pretty sure B. Fender at Legato can see to that.
Bg

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#17: Re: Question for Americans using their amps with N. European current

Posted on 2006-07-19 09:27:08 by Steven Husting

I moved to Europe in 1990 and stupidly sold my black and silverface
fenders, thinking I can't use them here.

First, if the amp is small, buy it there, as you noted, the stuff is
cheaper in the US.

First choice is something with a 110/220 (or 120/240, whatever) switch
on the power supply. Should be easy enough to find a solid state amp
with one. Manufacturers of tube amps often have an &quot;international&quot;
version, but a tube amp is never lightweight, so I suppose you're not
interested in that.

Second choice is bring over a 110V amp and use a &quot;step down
transformer&quot; like this -&gt;
<a href="http://www.tubeampdoctor.com/product_info.php?cPath=27_47&amp;products_id=145" target="_blank"> http://www.tubeampdoctor.com/product_info.php?cPath=27_47&am p;products_id=145</a>
This is pretty common; you'll often see US amps for sale with such
tranformers permanently mounted in the bottom.

Third choice is to swap out the appropriate components in the power
supply. In a tube amp this would be the mains transformer, in a SS amp
I have no idea. Some tube amps have a tranny that has european mains
connections which aren't connected.


I don't know if 2) or 3) would save you any money. Find a small
transistor amp with a switch.

steven

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#18: Re: Question for Americans using their amps with N. European current

Posted on 2006-07-20 05:23:20 by joel fass

jazzgeetar wrote:
&gt; There's the Fender Jazzmaster Ultralight that has a voltage selector
&gt; switch. I love mine, great, powerful, tiny amp.
&gt;
&gt; joel fass wrote:
&gt; &gt; Do you know of any light amps comparable to Jazz Kats that
&gt; &gt; have such switches? That might be the answer right there.

I tried two amps today: an AER. Ugh. Totally dry and lifeless. The
Jazz Kat I played for 45 minutes using a very warm sounding guitar and
it was way better. No comparison really. A little heavier. It still
didn't quite have the 'humanity' and edge I'm looking for, but for what
it is it's very impressive. I thought of the fender you mentioned but
was too dumbass to right the name down.

You know what, though? Outside of Fenders and 700 pound Mesa Boogies
you buy when you're a rock star with roadies I really like the Peavey
Classic 30. Used it on a tour miced and it rocked. It was the
promoter's and I tried one before my friend has and loved it. It's
really not much heavier that the Jazz Kat and I may as well get the
fatter, warmer sound I want and deserve. If that doesn't have the
switch it can't be that hard to alter it. I'll get rid of my Fender
Deluxe 90 that I never liked much anyway. F'ing Fender amps. They're
great but the spring reverb breaks like before you even get it out of
the store. Good thing I'm not a 'wethead'....

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#19: Re: Question for Americans using their amps with N. European current

Posted on 2006-07-20 05:32:19 by joel fass

<a href="mailto:ottguit&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">ottguit&#64;hotmail.com</a> wrote:
&gt; &gt; I'
&gt;
&gt; If it's not just for a trip/gig, then you can buy a Polytone amp here
&gt; and have it converted,
&gt; I'm pretty sure B. Fender at Legato can see to that.
&gt; Bg

Sorry. I wouldn't have a Polytone in my home. Never touch the stuff.
Thans all the same.

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#20: Re: Question for Americans using their amps with N. European current

Posted on 2006-07-20 08:17:55 by ottguit

&gt; Sorry. I wouldn't have a Polytone in my home. Never touch the stuff.
&gt; Thans all the same.

Hmm, I've got both a Polytone and JazzKat, and I don't find them that
far removed, in fact I find them pretty similar in approach, BUT I
definitely prefer the JazzKat right now.
But with a B3 player I might want my MiniBrute back tho.

Bg

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#21: Re: Question for Americans using their amps with N. European current

Posted on 2006-07-20 09:08:27 by Steven Husting

joel fass wrote:

&gt; You know what, though? Outside of Fenders and 700 pound Mesa Boogies
&gt; you buy when you're a rock star with roadies I really like the Peavey
&gt; Classic 30. Used it on a tour miced and it rocked. It was the
&gt; promoter's and I tried one before my friend has and loved it. It's
&gt; really not much heavier that the Jazz Kat and I may as well get the
&gt; fatter, warmer sound I want and deserve.

The classic 30 is a fine, underrated amp that responds well to better
tubes. It also has well-documented mods:
<a href="http://www.blueguitar.org/articles.htm." target="_blank">http://www.blueguitar.org/articles.htm.</a> I don't like the way the new
version looks, though. Not that that's important.

&gt; If that doesn't have the
&gt; switch it can't be that hard to alter it.

Oh yes it can.

The switch is only possible if the mains transformer is designed to
handle 120V and 240V. Because a 120V transformer is cheaper than a
&quot;universal&quot; transformer, and because this is a mass-produced,
wave-soldered amp, Peavey can save (for example) $1.23 (or whatever)
per amp by using a US-only transformer instead of a &quot;universal&quot;
transformer. Doesn't sound like much until you multiply it by the
gadzillions of units they manufacture. I don't know that Peavey uses a
US-only transformer, but it would surprise me no end if they didn't.
The transformer isn't spec'd on the schematic I looked at.

This means you have to replace the transformer. Good transformers
aren't cheap; mediocre transformers aren't cheap either. Cheap
transformers are cheap. There are reasons why good transformers are
expensive. So you have to replace the transformer. And it has to
__fit__ the chassis. There isn't much room to play around, so if it
isn't a drop-in replacement you better have someone who knows exactly
what he's doing change it. If you've never mucked about in a tube amp,
let someone do it who knows what he's doing. A tube amp can __kill__
you even if it is not plugged in.

You can mail order a Classic 30 in Germany for 555 euros. What do they
cost in the States, $400 - 450 or so? A mediocre tranny will cost you
$60 (if you can find a drop-in replacement) and you still have to pay
someone to put it in. Plus you've voided your warranty. And you have
the hassle of getting it over here. Do you really want to do all this
to save maybe $100 in the end?

I'll get rid of my Fender
&gt; Deluxe 90 that I never liked much anyway. F'ing Fender amps. They're
&gt; great but the spring reverb breaks like before you even get it out of
&gt; the store. Good thing I'm not a 'wethead'....

Hmm, never had a problem with reverb on fender amps ...

steven

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#22: Re: Question for Americans using their amps with N. European current

Posted on 2006-07-20 13:55:38 by Greger Hoel

On 20 Jul 2006 00:08:27 -0700, &quot;SJHust&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:sjhusting&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">sjhusting&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;&gt; If that doesn't have the
&gt;&gt; switch it can't be that hard to alter it.
&gt;
&gt;Oh yes it can.
&gt;
&gt;The switch is only possible if the mains transformer is designed to
&gt;handle 120V and 240V. Because a 120V transformer is cheaper than a
&gt;&quot;universal&quot; transformer, and because this is a mass-produced,
&gt;wave-soldered amp, Peavey can save (for example) $1.23 (or whatever)
&gt;per amp by using a US-only transformer instead of a &quot;universal&quot;
&gt;transformer. Doesn't sound like much until you multiply it by the
&gt;gadzillions of units they manufacture. I don't know that Peavey uses a
&gt;US-only transformer, but it would surprise me no end if they didn't.

OTOH, since they make amps for both the US and European markets, it's
likely that they'll save production costs by using the same parts for
both power systems as far as possible.

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#23: Re: Question for Americans using their amps with N. European current

Posted on 2006-07-20 15:55:19 by Steven Husting

&gt; OTOH, since they make amps for both the US and European markets, it's
&gt; likely that they'll save production costs by using the same parts for
&gt; both power systems as far as possible.

You'd think so. I wouldn't count on it though without proof. There's no
indication of it either way on the Peavey web site, in the user manual
for the amp, or on the schematic. It could be that the per unit savings
of the domestic over the international version more than offsets the
additional costs from stocking two parts. Who knows. He should ask
Peavey about it and get a definitive answer. Maybe he can order an
international version in the US. Me, given the inconvenience of
physically getting it over to Europe, I would just spend the extra
money and buy it here. Or buy a used one, these amps are common as
dirt. But I would stock up on good NOS preamp tubes in the US before I
moved.

Looking at the Fender schematic for a Hot Rod Deluxe (an amp directly
comparable to the Classic 30 and also common as dirt) it looks like
Fender does it that way. But that's no guarantee that Peavey does.

steven

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#24: Re: Question for Americans using their amps with N. European current

Posted on 2006-07-20 18:45:34 by BFender

Legato Guitars no longer carries Polytone, but when we did, we had to send
the amp to Polytone in North Hollywood for the change. IIRC, they charged
$50 (wholesale?) + s/h/i for the change.

/bf/

&lt;<a href="mailto:ottguit&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">ottguit&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:<a href="mailto:1153280884.178346.317980&#64;m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com..." target="_blank">1153280884.178346.317980&#64;m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...</a>
&gt;&gt; I'm not going anywhere on vacation, but talking about a possible move.
&gt;&gt; If I buy anything it'll be here, as the dollar is getting its ass
&gt;&gt; kicked by the Euro. I already will have a battery amp for outdoor
&gt;&gt; playing and don't otherwise want to get involved with batteries..
&gt;&gt; Cheap(est, but still of high-quality), light, portable, headache-free
&gt;&gt; is what I want.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Thanks for your answer. I really appreciate the input.
&gt;
&gt; If it's not just for a trip/gig, then you can buy a Polytone amp here
&gt; and have it converted,
&gt; I'm pretty sure B. Fender at Legato can see to that.
&gt; Bg
&gt;

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#25: Re: Question for Americans using their amps with N. European current

Posted on 2006-07-20 21:34:49 by tombrown

joel fass wrote:
&gt;
&gt; You know what, though? Outside of Fenders and 700 pound Mesa Boogies
&gt; you buy when you're a rock star with roadies I really like the Peavey
&gt; Classic 30. Used it on a tour miced and it rocked. It was the
&gt; promoter's and I tried one before my friend has and loved it. It's
&gt; really not much heavier that the Jazz Kat and I may as well get the
&gt; fatter, warmer sound I want and deserve. If that doesn't have the
&gt; switch it can't be that hard to alter it.

Any decent amp tech should be able to install a new transformer and
rewire the power supply for you. It's not major surgery. There is a web
page out there containing circuits for a number of Classic 30 mods. You
might ask that guy if he does power supplies.

&gt; I'll get rid of my Fender
&gt; Deluxe 90 that I never liked much anyway. F'ing Fender amps. They're
&gt; great but the spring reverb breaks like before you even get it out of
&gt; the store. Good thing I'm not a 'wethead'....

I've got the Peavey Classic 30 and I like the tone, but it does not
impress me as being all that road-worthy. I've never broken it, but
then I treat it pretty gentle too. It just looks under the hood like
your generic circuit board amp, with all the potential problems that go
along with that.

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#26: Re: Question for Americans using their amps with N. European current

Posted on 2006-07-21 03:14:08 by joel fass

Wow. You guys know so much more than me about gear. I'm still figuring
out what the 4 buttons on my Samick semi-hollow do. And, damn it all,
in 15-20 years I will have the answer.

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#27: Re: Question for Americans using their amps with N. European current

Posted on 2006-07-21 04:23:21 by ottguit

joel fass wrote:
&gt; Wow. You guys know so much more than me about gear. I'm still figuring
&gt; out what the 4 buttons on my Samick semi-hollow do. And, damn it all,
&gt; in 15-20 years I will have the answer.

Yeah but you're leanin' fass :):)
bg

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#28: Re: Question for Americans using their amps with N. European current

Posted on 2006-07-21 08:15:59 by Steven Husting

I agree 100%. My point is that he should know what he's getting into
before he buys. He might decide it's not worth the trouble.

steven


<a href="mailto:tombrown&#64;jhu.edu" target="_blank">tombrown&#64;jhu.edu</a> wrote:

&gt; Any decent amp tech should be able to install a new transformer and
&gt; rewire the power supply for you. It's not major surgery. There is a web
&gt; page out there containing circuits for a number of Classic 30 mods. You
&gt; might ask that guy if he does power supplies.
&gt;

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#29: Re: Question for Americans using their amps with N. European current

Posted on 2006-07-21 14:51:12 by joel fass

SJHust wrote:
&gt; I agree 100%. My point is that he should know what he's getting into
&gt; before he buys. He might decide it's not worth the trouble.
&gt;
&gt; steven
&gt;
&gt; Trouble is my middle name. Like Woody Allen as director in &quot;What's up Tiger Lily?&quot; danger is my bread and violence my butter. Er, wait, violence is my bread, and, um..........Danger and violence my various breads and various butters.....

Probably gonna go with the Jazz Kat or Classic 30. No Polytone will
ever set bottom in a home owned or rented by me. Don't like wallowing
or souding like mud is why. Fenders are great, though. To the guy that
suggested the Jazzmaster: mwuuuhh, bro. On the forehead. In fact thanks
to all you wags for edumacating me.

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