Rocker going towards jazz question

Rocker going towards jazz question

am 05.05.2006 16:08:11 von mick

.
I'm aware of modes, and I can read and score music, but I need
to wrap my head around voice-leading jazz chords, and lead work
that outlines and moves through chord voicings. I want to add
this distinctiveness to my compositions, as well as my improvs.
So what book should I get that would help me down this road?
Most of the ones I've seen start too basic, and at least half
of the book is a waste to me. Any suggestions?
Most of what I've liked so far falls within the fusion realm;
I hope that's not a dirty word here (I know some jazz purists
don't care for it). But since my primary interest is prog, it
is only natural; after all, prog is a fusing of many disparate
styles into one enourmously variable melting pot.
I want to expand the horizons of my chord theory and lead
playing with the knowledge and feeling of jazz. I don't just
want to *know* the chords and scales - I want to hear them in
my head and feel them when I play. But one must start somewhere,
so I'm looking for a book which will lead me down the road I
mentioned above: voice-leading jazz chords, and lead work that
outlines and moves through chord voicings. Once my fingers
learn some of the paths, and my brain starts to recognize the
sounds and associate them with the fingers, I should be able
to use the theory I know already and add to it, opening up
another diverse world into my music.
Well, that's the *plan*, anyway...
--
---Mikhael...Rick,

> The other guys in the plant know to
> leave me alone in the cafeteria, but they still kid me a lot.

Sounds a little postal :)-

GregYou hooked me. I just signed up to get those plus the Joe Diorio
"Solo". Ah, alternate source of income, where art thou??"Kevin Van Sant" <kvansant@pobox

Re: Rocker going towards jazz question

am 05.05.2006 17:13:31 von Joey Goldstein

ld AT sympatico DOT caoasysco wrote:
> I know many of you folks have forgotten more songs than I will ever
> learn. As some of you may remember, I precompose my solos with jazz,
> but I always forget them. If I don't record them, they're gone forever.

Memory overload is what eventually drove me to become more of an
improviser. I just kept learning new songs, which meant longer
intervals between play

Re: Rocker going towards jazz question

am 05.05.2006 17:33:37 von tomsalvojazz

you try and get a hold of some instructional videos
form Joe Pass and definitely try and get the Jimmy Bruno videos if you
can (No Nonsense Jazz Guitar and Inside/Outside)

I have found that instructional videos (especially the advanced ones)
are not only a lot of fun but also very informative.

Tom


Mick wrote:
> I'm a pretty good rock player. I've been playing for a while,
> and my dexterity is pretty good. I've started moving beyond the
> typical rock playing for a while now, incorporating jazz and
> classical sounds. Things from Holdsworth, Gambale, etc. are
> seeping into my improvs.
> But I want to start studying jazz some more, and I'd like to
> get some book giving me more theory and practical excercises.
> I'm aware of modes, and I can read and score music, but I need
> to wrap my head around voice-leading jazz chords, and lead work
> that outlines and moves through chord voicings. I want to add
> this distinctiveness to my compositions, as well as my improvs.
> So what book should I get that would help me down this road?
> Most of the ones I've seen start too basic, and at least half
> of the book is a waste to me. Any suggestions?
> Most of what I've liked so far falls within the fusion realm;
> I hope that's not a dirty word here (I know some jazz purists
> don't care for it). But since my primary interest is prog, it
> is only natural; after all, prog is a fusing of many disparate
> styles into one enourmously variable melting pot.
> I want to expand the horizons of my chord theory and lead
> playing with the knowledge and feeling of jazz. I don't just
> want to *know* the chords and scales - I want to hear them in
> my head and feel them when I play. But one must start somewhere,
> so I'm looking for a book which will lead me down the road I
> mentioned above: voice-leading jazz chords, and lead work that
> outlines and moves through chord voicings. Once my fingers
> learn some of the paths, and my brain starts to recognize the
> sounds and associate them with the fingers, I should be able
> to use the theory I know already and add to it, opening up
> another diverse world into my music.
> Well, that's the *plan*, anyway...
> --
> ---Mikhael...Outstanding and a pure joy as usual, Dick! WOW. I'm alsways blown
away by your playing and your tone is laways so sweet no matter what
guitar you happen to pick up. Thanks for the clip and the inspiration.Yeah, we lost him a couple of weeks ago. No mention in any of his
posts that i recall. Hopefully he is on holiday.<<< From:
tombrown@jhu.edu

Re: Rocker going towards jazz question

am 05.05.2006 18:41:25 von pmfan57

I
> think (LOL!)
>
> I would recommend you try and get a hold of some instructional videos
> form Joe Pass and definitely try and get the Jimmy Bruno videos if you
> can (No Nonsense Jazz Guitar and Inside/Outside)
>
> I have found that instructional videos (especially the advanced ones)
> are not only a lot of fun but also very informative.
>
> Tom
>
>
> Mick wrote:
> > I'm a pretty good rock player. I've been playing for a while,
> > and my dexterity is pretty good. I've started moving beyond the
> > typical rock playing for a while now, incorporating jazz and
> > classical sounds. Things from Holdsworth, Gambale, etc. are
> > seeping into my improvs.
> > But I want to start studying jazz some more, and I'd like to
> > get some book giving me more theory and practical excercises.
> > I'm aware of modes, and I can read and score music, but I need
> > to wrap my head around voice-leading jazz chords, and lead work
> > that outlines and moves through chord voicings. I want to add
> > this distinctiveness to my compositions, as well as my improvs.
> > So what book should I get that would help me down this road?
> > Most of the ones I've seen start too basic, and at least half
> > of the book is a waste to me. Any suggestions?
> > Most of what I've liked so far falls within the fusion realm;
> > I hope that's not a dirty word here (I know some jazz purists
> > don't care for it). But since my primary interest is prog, it
> > is only natural; after all, prog is a fusing of many disparate
> > styles into one enourmously variable melting pot.
> > I want to expand the horizons of my chord theory and lead
> > playing with the knowledge and feeling of jazz. I don't just
> > want to *know* the chords and scales - I want to hear them in
> > my head and feel them when I play. But one must start somewhere,
> > so I'm looking for a book which will lead me down the road I
> > mentioned above: voice-leading jazz chords, and lead work that
> > outlines and moves through chord voicings. Once my fingers
> > learn some of the paths, and my brain starts to recognize the
> > sounds and associate them with the fingers, I should be able
> > to use the theory I know already and add to it, opening up
> > another diverse world into my music.
> > Well, that's the *plan*, anyway...
> > --
> > ---Mikhael...

Brett Wilmott has a great book on voice leading, but it's hard to tell
if you'd want to start there. wrote:
> You hooked me. I just signed up to get those plus the Joe Diorio
> "Solo". Ah, alternate source of income, where art thou??

I assume you got them free with your free 50 downloads introductory
offer. If not, email customer service.He's building my guitar...he better be real!!!

Re: Rocker going towards jazz question

am 05.05.2006 18:57:20 von Paul Sanwald

he minor 3d in a minor 7 chord to 4, what chord do you get
(minor 7 sus 4?)

TIA

#####FWIW, when somebody calls me I as

Re: Rocker going towards jazz question

am 05.05.2006 19:06:50 von derek

k myself some questions about the gig
before I take it:

1 - Musical -- Is it music I enjoy playing? Would I be happy to see my
friends in the audience?

2 - Financial -- How's the money? Do they pay promptly and fairly (no

Re: Rocker going towards jazz question

am 05.05.2006 19:27:03 von jazzgeetar

y for me to get myself
moving was private lessons with a good local jazz guitarist. The
lessons forced me to get into a regular practice regimen. The lessons
helped me not only learn technique and theory, but also an approach to
analyzing tunes and what not. For practice, the Band In A Box software
helps me out alot for backing tracks for learning tunes from the Real
Book. Just playing along on real book standards, helps me alot when
jamming with others isn't possible. Lastly, I've found a few books that
helped along the way and will continue to push me now as I go through
them. These books are:

Lead stuff:
Pat Martino's Linear Expressions
Joe Diorio's Intervallic Designs For Jazz Guitar

Rhythm stuff:
Jim Ferguson's All Blues For Jazz Guitar - Comping Styles, Chords &
Grooves

Chord melody stuff:
Robert Conti's Chord Melody Assembly Line

-Danoasysco wrote:
> Rick,
>
> > The other guys in the plant know to
> > leave me alone in the cafeteria, but they still kid me a lot.
>
> Sounds a little postal :)-
>
> Greg

It's not as bad as it sounds, I dont do this every day. Funny they
wont kid a guy who buries his head in a newspaper every day, but a guy
jotting fret di

Re: Rocker going towards jazz question

am 05.05.2006 19:33:08 von pmfan57

try any
> transcribing. I also decided the fastest way for me to get myself
> moving was private lessons with a good local jazz guitarist. The
> lessons forced me to get into a regular practice regimen. The lessons
> helped me not only learn technique and theory, but also an approach to
> analyzing tunes and what not. For practice, the Band In A Box software
> helps me out alot for backing tracks for learning tunes from the Real
> Book. Just playing along on real book standards, helps me alot when
> jamming with others isn't possible. Lastly, I've found a few books that
> helped along the way and will continue to push me now as I go through
> them. These books are:
>
> Lead stuff:
> Pat Martino's Linear Expressions
> Joe Diorio's Intervallic Designs For Jazz Guitar
>
> Rhythm stuff:
> Jim Ferguson's All Blues For Jazz Guitar - Comping Styles, Chords &
> Grooves
>
> Chord melody stuff:
> Robert Conti's Chord Melody Assembly Line
>
> -Dan

for Joe Diorio, I would get "Fusion" before I would get the Intervallic
Designs.

Linear Expressions obviously is a must have! Didn't I tell about that
one?

David Baker's How to Play Bebop Vol. 1 is important as well.


Don't Forget Robert Conti's arrangements if you can find them, and his
turnarounds intros and endings."Five Sharp" <> wrote in message
news:93a3e$445b86a8$d55d8e9b$
> If you raise the minor 3d in a minor 7 chord to 4, what chord do you get
> (minor 7 sus 4?)
>


Blank7 sus

Re: Rocker going towards jazz question

am 05.05.2006 19:51:18 von jazzgeetar

/>
A C E G

and omitted/raised the C to a D

A D E G

Using the original root...

A7sus4 (omits 3rd but su

Re: Rocker going towards jazz question

am 05.05.2006 21:57:11 von windcrest

me book giving me more theory and practical excercises.
> I'm aware of modes, and I can read and score music, but I need
> to wrap my head around voice-leading jazz chords, and lead work
> that outlines and moves through chord voicings. I want to add
> this distinctiveness to my compositions, as well as my improvs.
> So what book should I get that would help me down this road?
> Most of the ones I've seen start too basic, and at least half
> of the book is a waste to me. Any suggestions?
> Most of what I've liked so far falls within the fusion realm;
> I hope that's not a dirty word here (I know some jazz purists
> don't care for it). But since my primary interest is prog, it
> is only natural; after all, prog is a fusing of many disparate
> styles into one enourmously variable melting pot.
> I want to expand the horizons of my chord theory and lead
> playing with the knowledge and feeling of jazz. I don't just
> want to *know* the chords and scales - I want to hear them in
> my head and feel them when I play. But one must start somewhere,
> so I'm looking for a book which will lead me down the road I
> mentioned above: voice-leading jazz chords, and lead work that
> outlines and moves through chord voicings. Once my fingers
> learn some of the paths, and my brain starts to recognize the
> sounds and associate them with the fingers, I should be able
> to use the theory I know already and add to it, opening up
> another diverse world into my music.
> Well, that's the *plan*, anyway...
> --
> ---Mikhael...

Already mentioned but I second... Jim Ferguson's All Blues For Jazz
Guitar (applicable beyond blues).

Also check out the HI and LO comping interactive CD's from PG music
(yes makers of BIAB). They have lots of examples of jazz voice leading
on hi or low string sets:




I'm just beginning to go through these, the material is pretty good,
although the software interface is kinda dated but functional.

Also I would suggest building on the standards repertoir via fake books
and play-along book/CD's, the Hal Leonard Jazz Play Along Series, as
well as Jamie Aebersold products.vic wrote:
> If math and Martino are your bag...
>
> R/
> Vic

Nobody seemed interested when I posted this about a month ago. Not
even Joey.<

Re: Rocker going towards jazz question

am 06.05.2006 00:43:25 von Clay Moore

g it out on your own" by ear. Then and only then will the
theory information make sense. It's interesting you picked Wes and Pass
as examples, because they were mostly self-taught by ear players. Joe
Pass had a few lessons and did learn some theory later, but when I
played in Johnstown, PA (Pass' home town) almost 30 years ago I got to
know someone who knew Joe when he was a kid. He told me he would see
Joe at age 16 carrying his guitar to a gig, and that he played then the
way he would later sound on records. ALL these guys - Wes, Pass,
Martino, Benson, Grant Green - learned the same way, which was to
figure out some music from records and then go out and start playing
jam sessions and gigs.

Clay Moore
Not sure a book is what you are looking for. Much of what you know already
works in jazz. What I suggest is listening to jazz you find appealing
seriously. The notes and scales don't change. The feel does and the tone
of the guitar usually. While a distorted sound is great in fusion, it might
not in a jazz tune situation.

As far as chords and voice leading, I never cared for books. Si

Re: Rocker going towards jazz question

am 06.05.2006 00:54:45 von Gene Ess

nce you read
and know how to score, write out ALL voicings. This will take a while but
you won't regret it. If you think math, there are only so many cycles that
fits in a certain scale/mode.

--
Gene Ess
www.jazzgenemusic.com


"Mick" <> wrote in message
news:
> I'm a pretty good rock player. I've been playing for a while,
> and my dexterity is pretty good. I've started moving beyond the
> typical rock playing for a while now, incorporating jazz and
> classical sounds. Things from Holdsworth, Gambale, etc. are
> seeping into my improvs.
> But I want to start studying jazz some more, and I'd like to
> get some book giving me more theory and practical excercises.
> I'm aware of modes, and I can read and score music, but I need
> to wrap my head around voice-leading jazz chords, and lead work
> that outlines and moves through chord voicings. I want to add
> this distinctiveness to my compositions, as well as my improvs.
> So what book should I get that would help me down this road?
> Most of the ones I've seen start too basic, and at least half
> of the book is a waste to me. Any suggestions?
> Most of what I've liked so far falls within the fusion realm;
> I hope that's not a dirty word here (I know some jazz purists
> don't care for it). But since my primary interest is prog, it
> is only natural; after all, prog is a fusing of many disparate
> styles into one enourmously variable melting pot.
> I want to expand the horizons of my chord theory and lead
> playing with the knowledge and feeling of jazz. I don't just
> want to *know* the chords and scales - I want to hear them in
> my head and feel them when I play. But one must start somewhere,
> so I'm looking for a book which will lead me down the road I
> mentioned above: voice-leading jazz chords, and lead work that
> outlines and moves through chord voicings. Once my fingers
> learn some of the paths, and my brain starts to recognize the
> sounds and associate them with the fingers, I should be able
> to use the theory I know already and add to it, opening up
> another diverse world into my music.
> Well, that's the *plan*, anyway...
> --
> ---Mikhael...> there seems to be a lot of versions of the song's chords

Most of which are just plain wrong. Not just little nitpicky
differences, but huge gaping differences. Of course, small variations
are still going to exist, but here are two easy checks for you: the
second bar should be Abm7-Db7 (not Fm7b5-Bb7), and that chord should be
Eb major, not minor. Any chart that has those two things

Re: Rocker going towards jazz question

am 06.05.2006 03:57:20 von geekguitar

ng through chord changes using
scales, arpeggios and particular licks (like 2-5-1 licks). It is
designed to get players going with jazz improv and really learn how to
negotiate chord changes with our improvisation. It works off of very
common scale chord and arpeggio shapes (and shows you how to connect
all three: chord, arpeggio and scale). Feel free to check it out at
www.funkyfolkmusic.com.

Good luck with your playing.

--Eric Elias
www.ericelias.net>> D Ab C G
>
> Ahhh, one of the few extentions of a 1/2 dim7 chord. You don't see
> that
> chord a lot

You don't see a specific symbol for it, perhaps, but I'd say *most* jazz
musicians are in the habit of adding 11ths and or 9ths as color tones on
m7b5 chords.

---------------
Marc Sabatella
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