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#1: Washburn J3

Posted on 2005-12-09 02:52:53 by mark

Just wanted to follow up. I emailed Washburn last week to find out the
specs on the new J3 model that appears to be a very cheap ES-175 clone,
though there are no specs anywhere showing depth or scale length. At
$299 new including shipping, both on ebay and the online stores, I'm
very interested to know if this thing is similar to a 175.

As I kind of expected....I never heard back from Washburn. I know some
others on here said they emailed - did you hear back?

mark

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#2: Re: Washburn J3

Posted on 2005-12-09 17:40:57 by windcrest

mark wrote:
> Just wanted to follow up. I emailed Washburn last week to find out the
> specs on the new J3 model that appears to be a very cheap ES-175 clone,
> though there are no specs anywhere showing depth or scale length. At
> $299 new including shipping, both on ebay and the online stores, I'm
> very interested to know if this thing is similar to a 175.
>
> As I kind of expected....I never heard back from Washburn. I know some
> others on here said they emailed - did you hear back?
>
> mark

No answer yet.

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#3: Re: Washburn J3

Posted on 2005-12-10 01:36:18 by mac

Emailed one of the ebay sellers, here's the dimensions he gives:

"The Washburn J3 that you asked about today measures 16.75 inches lower
and 12.25 inches upper bout. The depth is 3.5. The nut is 1 5/8 inches.
And I metioned that the scale is 25.5 inches."

Here's the address of the one I looked at (hope it works), but the
seller ended this auction early because he accidentally shipped this
blond instead of a sunburst one he was also selling. He will relist as
soon as he corrects his mistake.

<a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&amp;item=7373036989&amp;ssPageName=MERC_VIC_RSCC_Pr4_PcY_BIN_Stores_IT" target="_blank"> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&amp;item=73730 36989&amp;ssPageName=MERC_VIC_RSCC_Pr4_PcY_BIN_Stores_IT</a>

Dimensions are obviously not of an es 175/165.

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#4: Re: Washburn J3

Posted on 2005-12-10 04:52:06 by windcrest

Mac wrote:
&gt; Emailed one of the ebay sellers, here's the dimensions he gives:
&gt;
&gt; &quot;The Washburn J3 that you asked about today measures 16.75 inches lower
&gt; and 12.25 inches upper bout. The depth is 3.5. The nut is 1 5/8 inches.
&gt; And I metioned that the scale is 25.5 inches.&quot;
&gt;
&gt; Here's the address of the one I looked at (hope it works), but the
&gt; seller ended this auction early because he accidentally shipped this
&gt; blond instead of a sunburst one he was also selling. He will relist as
&gt; soon as he corrects his mistake.
&gt;
&gt; <a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&amp;item=7373036989&amp;ssPageName=MERC_VIC_RSCC_Pr4_PcY_BIN_Stores_IT" target="_blank"> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&amp;item=73730 36989&amp;ssPageName=MERC_VIC_RSCC_Pr4_PcY_BIN_Stores_IT</a>
&gt;
&gt; Dimensions are obviously not of an es 175/165.

Yeah a lot of Washburns have those really close string spacing, not
good for my hands.

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#5: Re: Washburn J3

Posted on 2005-12-10 05:17:57 by oasysco

Mark, while the specs aren't near a 175 (mahog neck, 24.5 scale, 16&quot;
body), that looks like alot of guitar for the money!

Greg

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#6: Re: Washburn J3

Posted on 2005-12-10 07:10:21 by mark

Mac wrote:
&gt; Emailed one of the ebay sellers, here's the dimensions he gives:
&gt;
&gt; &quot;The Washburn J3 that you asked about today measures 16.75 inches lower
&gt; and 12.25 inches upper bout. The depth is 3.5. The nut is 1 5/8 inches.
&gt; And I metioned that the scale is 25.5 inches.&quot;
&gt;
&gt; Here's the address of the one I looked at (hope it works), but the
&gt; seller ended this auction early because he accidentally shipped this
&gt; blond instead of a sunburst one he was also selling. He will relist as
&gt; soon as he corrects his mistake.
&gt;
&gt; <a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&amp;item=7373036989&amp;ssPageName=MERC_VIC_RSCC_Pr4_PcY_BIN_Stores_IT" target="_blank"> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&amp;item=73730 36989&amp;ssPageName=MERC_VIC_RSCC_Pr4_PcY_BIN_Stores_IT</a>
&gt;
&gt; Dimensions are obviously not of an es 175/165.
&gt;

Thanks for posting this, Mac. I'm amazed that all of these cheap
archtops are different in basic dimensions/scale length than an es-175.
God knows in the rock/pop/blues world of things they knock-offs are all
almost perfect copies of the fender strat. But trying to find a close
copy to a 175 is impossible.

mark

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#7: Re: Washburn J3

Posted on 2005-12-10 07:13:16 by mark

oasysco wrote:
&gt; Mark, while the specs aren't near a 175 (mahog neck, 24.5 scale, 16&quot;
&gt; body), that looks like alot of guitar for the money!
&gt;
&gt; Greg
&gt;

Yes it does seem to be. Had the specs turned out to be be close to a
175, at least the scale length, then I would have given some serious
thought to purchasing a new one.

But now I'll probably wait and look for something else, or if a used one
comes up on ebay I may grab it if it is discounted. As you know, a
guitar like that going for $299 new would probably go for $200 used on
ebay, unless the goofs are out in full force that week! : )

mark

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#8: Re: Washburn J3

Posted on 2005-12-10 17:53:18 by GOD

On Sat, 10 Dec 2005 06:13:16 GMT, mark
&lt;<a href="mailto:mark2741&#64;six_string_theory_dot_com.com" target="_blank">mark2741&#64;six_string_theory_dot_com.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;oasysco wrote:
&gt;&gt; Mark, while the specs aren't near a 175 (mahog neck, 24.5 scale, 16&quot;
&gt;&gt; body), that looks like alot of guitar for the money!
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Greg
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt;Yes it does seem to be. Had the specs turned out to be be close to a
&gt;175, at least the scale length, then I would have given some serious
&gt;thought to purchasing a new one.
&gt;
&gt;But now I'll probably wait and look for something else, or if a used one
&gt;comes up on ebay I may grab it if it is discounted. As you know, a
&gt;guitar like that going for $299 new would probably go for $200 used on
&gt;ebay, unless the goofs are out in full force that week! : )
&gt;
&gt;mark


I think many of the knockoffs are designed by players.
Some like long scale necks better than short.
Some like smaller bodies for different sounds.
There are hundreds of different strat type configurations.
If you were to find an exact copy of an ES-175 you would probably pay
big bucks for it.
Plus they would be sued by Gibson....again.
I think some of the knockoffs are worth trying.
They might be great guitars.
If not dump them on ebay and try again.
You can get a knockoff of almost any guitar you like without paying
Gibson, Guild, Eastman etc prices.
I love it!!

Pt

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#9: Re: Washburn J3

Posted on 2005-12-11 17:22:24 by mark

Pt wrote:
&gt;
&gt; I think many of the knockoffs are designed by players.
&gt; Some like long scale necks better than short.
&gt; Some like smaller bodies for different sounds.

Then how come no players have taken the easy route and just copied the
specs of an ES-175, which IMO is the best jazz sound there is : )

&gt; There are hundreds of different strat type configurations.

But primarily one strat body shape, one neck type (maple, 25.5&quot;), two
fretboard types (maple or rosewood). This is my point - I can go buy a
$149 Yamaha that is, basically minus the headstock shape (which is
irrelevant anyway) a strat clone. Can't do that with a 175.

&gt; If you were to find an exact copy of an ES-175 you would probably pay
&gt; big bucks for it.

I don't see why. It's laminate.

&gt; Plus they would be sued by Gibson....again.

Body depth, neck wood, and scale length aren't enough to lose in court
over. I think the problem with the lawsuits was the blatant headstock
copying. I could be wrong on that as I wasn't buying guitars back then.

&gt; I think some of the knockoffs are worth trying.
&gt; They might be great guitars.
&gt; If not dump them on ebay and try again.
&gt; You can get a knockoff of almost any guitar you like without paying
&gt; Gibson, Guild, Eastman etc prices.
&gt; I love it!!
&gt;

I would too if I could get a 175 clone : ) My next guitar is going to be
real cheap - not a dime over $300 and probably less. So I'll be
ebaying it for sure.

mark

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#10: Re: Washburn J3

Posted on 2005-12-11 17:56:38 by GOD

On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 16:22:24 GMT, mark
&lt;<a href="mailto:mark2741&#64;six_string_theory_dot_com.com" target="_blank">mark2741&#64;six_string_theory_dot_com.com</a>&gt; wrote:


&gt;I would too if I could get a 175 clone : ) My next guitar is going to be
&gt; real cheap - not a dime over $300 and probably less. So I'll be
&gt;ebaying it for sure.
&gt;
&gt;mark



Let me know what you find.
I may get one too.
How bout Jay Turser?

Pt

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#11: Re: Washburn J3

Posted on 2005-12-11 19:29:33 by Joey Goldstein

Hey Mark, I've been ranting about this same stuff here for years.
I've found my soulmate!

The closest things to a 175 clone (3&quot; depth hollowbody, 16&quot; lower bout,
24.75&quot; scale) I've been able to find in my research are:
1. Some of the Aria Pro &quot;lawsuit&quot; copies from the 60's and 70's.
2. The Ibanez &quot;lawsuit&quot; copy, but it has a spruce laminate top.
3. The Samick HF-650. Not the HJ-650 which is 17&quot; and 25.5&quot; scale.
4. The Epi Zephyr Regent, the only one of the bunch currently in
production. Epi's published specs on this are wrong. It's 24.75&quot; scale
and 16&quot; lower bout.

1 &amp; 2 have mahogany necks, I think.
3 &amp; 4 have maple necks.
So the closest &quot;clone&quot; is probably the Aria Pro.

I just got an HJ-650 from one of my students (for $50.00) and I've been
setting it up gradually over the last few weeks (Thomas-Ginex fret
dress, Gibson Nashville bridge, 57 Classic, etc.). It needs a better
fret dress than the one I gave it myself and there is something odd
about the amplified sound which I'm attributing hopefully to the really
lousy pots. I'm probably going to install better quality pots later today.

Results so far are encouraging, but it's hard to tell whether this will
work out.
I think the 175's mahogany neck has a lot to do with the sound.

mark wrote:
&gt;
&gt; Pt wrote:
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; I think many of the knockoffs are designed by players.
&gt; &gt; Some like long scale necks better than short.
&gt; &gt; Some like smaller bodies for different sounds.
&gt;
&gt; Then how come no players have taken the easy route and just copied the
&gt; specs of an ES-175, which IMO is the best jazz sound there is : )
&gt;
&gt; &gt; There are hundreds of different strat type configurations.
&gt;
&gt; But primarily one strat body shape, one neck type (maple, 25.5&quot;), two
&gt; fretboard types (maple or rosewood). This is my point - I can go buy a
&gt; $149 Yamaha that is, basically minus the headstock shape (which is
&gt; irrelevant anyway) a strat clone. Can't do that with a 175.
&gt;
&gt; &gt; If you were to find an exact copy of an ES-175 you would probably pay
&gt; &gt; big bucks for it.
&gt;
&gt; I don't see why. It's laminate.
&gt;
&gt; &gt; Plus they would be sued by Gibson....again.
&gt;
&gt; Body depth, neck wood, and scale length aren't enough to lose in court
&gt; over. I think the problem with the lawsuits was the blatant headstock
&gt; copying. I could be wrong on that as I wasn't buying guitars back then.
&gt;
&gt; &gt; I think some of the knockoffs are worth trying.
&gt; &gt; They might be great guitars.
&gt; &gt; If not dump them on ebay and try again.
&gt; &gt; You can get a knockoff of almost any guitar you like without paying
&gt; &gt; Gibson, Guild, Eastman etc prices.
&gt; &gt; I love it!!
&gt; &gt;
&gt;
&gt; I would too if I could get a 175 clone : ) My next guitar is going to be
&gt; real cheap - not a dime over $300 and probably less. So I'll be
&gt; ebaying it for sure.
&gt;
&gt; mark

--
Joey Goldstein
<a href="http://www.joeygoldstein.com" target="_blank">http://www.joeygoldstein.com</a>
joegold AT sympatico DOT ca

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#12: Re: Washburn J3

Posted on 2005-12-11 19:51:52 by mark

Pt wrote:

&gt;
&gt; Let me know what you find.
&gt; I may get one too.
&gt; How bout Jay Turser?
&gt;

I tried a couple of Tursers at a nearby store. Apparently my area is the
Turser capitol of the world, because one of the local chains here
(George's Music - home of the most annoying sales people outside of a
cadillac dealership) stocks them, and because the store that sells a
boatload of them every day on ebay is not too far from me.

The one model looked quite nice but it didn't sound particularly well.
Could have just been a setup issue, I don't remember. The store wanted
too much for it at the time (and still), at $399. I try never to buy new
so even if it were $299 I wouldn't have bitten. At that $300 range there
are some interesting options. Non of course like an es-175 : )

I'm considering eventually getting the washburn J3 (probably have to get
that one new unless a used one comes up), or a guitar I've been wanting
to try for a long time now - the Cort Joe Beck. Those go for $300 on
ebay from time to time.

mark

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#13: Re: Washburn J3

Posted on 2005-12-11 20:46:08 by oasysco

&gt;4. The Epi Zephyr Regent, the only one of the bunch currently in
&gt;
&gt;3 &amp; 4 have maple necks.

Now, I could be wrong and I know published specs say different, but
AFAIK, in addition to the the ZR having a mahog body, I think it has a
mahog neck. Now is it one piece like an ES-175? I dont' know.

Greg

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#14: Re: Washburn J3

Posted on 2005-12-11 21:29:48 by Joey Goldstein

oasysco wrote:
&gt;
&gt; &gt;4. The Epi Zephyr Regent, the only one of the bunch currently in
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;3 &amp; 4 have maple necks.
&gt;
&gt; Now, I could be wrong and I know published specs say different, but
&gt; AFAIK, in addition to the the ZR having a mahog body, I think it has a
&gt; mahog neck. Now is it one piece like an ES-175? I dont' know.
&gt;
&gt; Greg

What makes you think it has a mahogany body?

--
Joey Goldstein
<a href="http://www.joeygoldstein.com" target="_blank">http://www.joeygoldstein.com</a>
joegold AT sympatico DOT ca

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#15: Re: Washburn J3

Posted on 2005-12-11 23:42:08 by ob62

In &lt;4nYmf.9021$<a href="mailto:Ea6.4300&#64;trnddc08" target="_blank">Ea6.4300&#64;trnddc08</a>&gt; mark &lt;<a href="mailto:mark2741&#64;six_string_theory_dot_com.com" target="_blank">mark2741&#64;six_string_theory_dot_com.com</a>&gt; writes:

&gt;Pt wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I think many of the knockoffs are designed by players.
&gt;&gt; Some like long scale necks better than short.
&gt;&gt; Some like smaller bodies for different sounds.

&gt;Then how come no players have taken the easy route and just copied the
&gt;specs of an ES-175, which IMO is the best jazz sound there is : )

what would it take to make a guitar that plays and sounds like an
es175? and how protected can such specs be?it wouldn't even have to
look like a 175. could have pointy double cutaway, could have ugly
reversed f-holes; it could have a completely failed spaceage design
and still it would be a hit.

it is hard to imagine that gibson isn't putting some sort of pressure
on all the other producers. or maybe they just have a silent happy
agreement between the actors on the guitar market. the lack of a cheap
guitar with es175 specs seems to indicate that the free market is not
working as it should.

-o
--
Pund til pund og frøers mængde - smeden græd da essen brændte.

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#16: Re: Washburn J3

Posted on 2005-12-12 01:40:34 by oasysco

&gt;what would it take to make a guitar that plays and sounds like an
&gt;es175? and how protected can such specs be?

The specs are probabyl widley known. Its' the mojo, fairy dust thing
that somehow othermakrers can't replicate. It's like the choice between
a $24K Chrysler 300 and a Bentley. The 300 looks like a Bentley, but...

Greg

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#17: Re: Washburn J3

Posted on 2005-12-12 03:11:48 by mark

oasysco wrote:

&gt; The specs are probabyl widley known. Its' the mojo, fairy dust thing
&gt; that somehow othermakrers can't replicate. It's like the choice between
&gt; a $24K Chrysler 300 and a Bentley. The 300 looks like a Bentley, but...
&gt;
&gt; Greg
&gt;

Could be but I wish that a manufacturer would make one and let the
buyers decide whether it has the same &quot;mojo&quot; or not.

mark

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#18: Re: Washburn J3

Posted on 2005-12-12 03:21:52 by mark

Joey Goldstein wrote:
&gt; Hey Mark, I've been ranting about this same stuff here for years.
&gt; I've found my soulmate!
&gt;
&gt; The closest things to a 175 clone (3&quot; depth hollowbody, 16&quot; lower bout,
&gt; 24.75&quot; scale) I've been able to find in my research are:
&gt; 1. Some of the Aria Pro &quot;lawsuit&quot; copies from the 60's and 70's.

I've seen those on ebay from time to time. They go for a good penny
nowadays (sometimes over a grand).

&gt; 2. The Ibanez &quot;lawsuit&quot; copy, but it has a spruce laminate top.
&gt; 3. The Samick HF-650. Not the HJ-650 which is 17&quot; and 25.5&quot; scale.

I'm going to look around for the HF-650 and see if I can find one.

&gt; 4. The Epi Zephyr Regent, the only one of the bunch currently in
&gt; production. Epi's published specs on this are wrong. It's 24.75&quot; scale
&gt; and 16&quot; lower bout.
&gt;

Amazing that a manufacturer could have their own guitar's specs wrong
for so long and not do anything about it, as I'm sure they've gotten
more than a few emails/calls enlightening them to the scale length of
the guitar they make!

&gt; 1 &amp; 2 have mahogany necks, I think.
&gt; 3 &amp; 4 have maple necks.
&gt; So the closest &quot;clone&quot; is probably the Aria Pro.
&gt;
&gt; I just got an HJ-650 from one of my students (for $50.00) and I've been
&gt; setting it up gradually over the last few weeks (Thomas-Ginex fret
&gt; dress, Gibson Nashville bridge, 57 Classic, etc.). It needs a better
&gt; fret dress than the one I gave it myself and there is something odd
&gt; about the amplified sound which I'm attributing hopefully to the really
&gt; lousy pots. I'm probably going to install better quality pots later today.
&gt;
&gt; Results so far are encouraging, but it's hard to tell whether this will
&gt; work out.
&gt; I think the 175's mahogany neck has a lot to do with the sound.
&gt;

I'm not normally picky when it comes to guitars but I definitely know I
like the sound the ES-175 but won't ever own one until lightning strikes
and I finally figure this jazz thing out. Maybe if that day ever happens
for me, and I'm aware that it has happened, I'll treat myself to an
expensive guitar. Until that day happens, I'm sticking with cheap
guitars to practice with. Please do let me knowhow you make out with the
HF-650.

mark

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#19: Re: Washburn J3

Posted on 2005-12-12 19:49:39 by GOD

Jay Turser ES-175 specs.

Jay Turser JT-139 big hollow body electric guitar in gloss vintage
natural finish with carved spruce top, and flamed-maple back &amp; sides.
Set maple neck has diamond-shape inlays in a bound rosewood fretboard.
Two vintage style dog-ear ALNICO P-90 pickups for sweet tone.

Single Cutaway, carved top big hollow body - ala ES-175
Chrome hardware
Lightweight, full hollow body of laminated woods (for superior
feedback rejection)
Carved, contoured spruce arch top
Flame Maple back and sides, for rich tone
High gloss vintage natural finish
Maple set neck (not bolt-on)
Rosewood fingerboard
Fully bound body &amp; neck
22 fret neck
Diamond-shape inlays in the fretboard
2 Alnico Dog-Ear P-90 pickups, with black covers
3-way selector switch
Multi-Adjustable Tone-Pros bridge (with more adjustment than a
TuneOmatic. Unit has roller saddles, individually adjustable, plus
locking height post adjustment with fine intonation angle adjustment)
Chrome Trapeze floating tailpiece
Chrome Grover-style tuning machines
24-3/4&quot; scale length
1-5/8&quot; nut width
2&quot; width at 12th fret
Weighs only 8 lbs.
This 6-string Big-hollow-body single cutaway Jazz Box electric guitar
has a beautiful gloss natural Sunburst finish on a carved spruce top.
This carefully designed and crafted instrument would make one think
that it is a significantly more expensive guitar. The Alnico P-90s,
with ALNICO magnets, and the full hollow flame maple body make this a
sweet sounding player. The feel of the neck is &quot;slim-taper.&quot; The tone
is rich, deep and full bodied, and the look and feel is just as rich.

This guitar comes with a full limited lifetime warranty and is brand
new.


Pt

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#20: Re: Washburn J3

Posted on 2005-12-13 03:29:10 by mark

Pt wrote:
&gt; Jay Turser ES-175 specs.
&gt;
&gt; Jay Turser JT-139 big hollow body electric guitar in gloss vintage
&gt; natural finish with carved spruce top, and flamed-maple back &amp; sides.
&gt; Set maple neck has diamond-shape inlays in a bound rosewood fretboard.
&gt; Two vintage style dog-ear ALNICO P-90 pickups for sweet tone.
&gt;
&gt; Single Cutaway, carved top big hollow body - ala ES-175
&gt; Chrome hardware
&gt; Lightweight, full hollow body of laminated woods (for superior
&gt; feedback rejection)
&gt; Carved, contoured spruce arch top
&gt; Flame Maple back and sides, for rich tone
&gt; High gloss vintage natural finish
&gt; Maple set neck (not bolt-on)
&gt; Rosewood fingerboard
&gt; Fully bound body &amp; neck
&gt; 22 fret neck
&gt; Diamond-shape inlays in the fretboard
&gt; 2 Alnico Dog-Ear P-90 pickups, with black covers
&gt; 3-way selector switch
&gt; Multi-Adjustable Tone-Pros bridge (with more adjustment than a
&gt; TuneOmatic. Unit has roller saddles, individually adjustable, plus
&gt; locking height post adjustment with fine intonation angle adjustment)
&gt; Chrome Trapeze floating tailpiece
&gt; Chrome Grover-style tuning machines
&gt; 24-3/4&quot; scale length
&gt; 1-5/8&quot; nut width
&gt; 2&quot; width at 12th fret
&gt; Weighs only 8 lbs.
&gt; This 6-string Big-hollow-body single cutaway Jazz Box electric guitar
&gt; has a beautiful gloss natural Sunburst finish on a carved spruce top.
&gt; This carefully designed and crafted instrument would make one think
&gt; that it is a significantly more expensive guitar. The Alnico P-90s,
&gt; with ALNICO magnets, and the full hollow flame maple body make this a
&gt; sweet sounding player. The feel of the neck is &quot;slim-taper.&quot; The tone
&gt; is rich, deep and full bodied, and the look and feel is just as rich.
&gt;
&gt; This guitar comes with a full limited lifetime warranty and is brand
&gt; new.
&gt;

<a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/Jay-Turser-JT139-Semi-Hollow-Body-Jazz-Electric-Guitar_W0QQitemZ7373139676QQcategoryZ64403QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem" target="_blank"> http://cgi.ebay.com/Jay-Turser-JT139-Semi-Hollow-Body-Jazz-E lectric-Guitar_W0QQitemZ7373139676QQcategoryZ64403QQtcZphoto QQcmdZViewItem</a>

According to this, it's a semi-hollow. That kind of takes it out of the
ES-175 clone race I'd say : )

mark

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#21: Re: Washburn J3

Posted on 2005-12-13 07:10:13 by GOD

&gt;According to this, it's a semi-hollow. That kind of takes it out of the
&gt;ES-175 clone race I'd say : )
&gt;
&gt;mark



It says....

&gt; Lightweight, full hollow body of laminated woods (for superior
&gt; feedback rejection)

Pt

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