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#1: Ray Thomas and The Other Side Of Life

Posted on 2006-07-14 21:25:56 by tysteel3000

Hi guys,

Yesterday, I was listening to the Other Side Of Life CD. I was
checking out the band photo on the back of the CD case , as well as the
photo at the end of the booklet, and I thought Ray's facial expressions
were very telling.

If you look at the band photo on the back of the CD case, Ray looks
sour and even a little upset. He just doesn't look happy, it's like
he'd rather be somewhere else. It's interesting to note that he looks
away from the camera while everyone else is preening and looking
involved for the photo shoot. Like they say, a picture can say a
thousand words. Also, if you look at the photo of Ray at the end of
the CD booklet, he has a scowl on his face.

It is my understanding that Ray wanted to participate on this album,
but that the other band members simply weren't interested in helping
him out with his songs. Part of the reason is that Ray heavily relied
on the others to help him finish his songs, and they didn't want to
help unless if he cut them in on the songwriting credit. So when Ray
showed up to the studio the other guys just ignored him. This is what
I was told by a good source who was there, watching all of this going
on.

I can only wonder what kind of interesting ideas and songs Ray could've
contributed to Other Side and Sur La Mer. While Justin & John wrote
the big "hits", Ray often came up with the lighter, more whimsical
moments. He came up with a lot of interesting, off the wall stuff
that was usually pretty cool at times. It would've provided a perfect
counterbalance to some of the more heavy songs the J's were putting on
those albums. In every way, Ray's songs often ended up being a
collaborative group effort, with all the guys throwing in musical ideas
to accompany Ray's lyrics, flute, and singing.

I'm sure that this must've been a hit to Ray's sense of self worth and
self esteem when his own band members, in the band he helped co-found,
just didn't feel that they should support him and his songs. In other
words, Ray was being told that he wasn't good enough to be featured.
Afterall he had done for them, he helped them over the years as a team
player,on their songs with his flute, harmonica, and wind instrument
arrangements (would NIWS been the same without the flute solo?), as
well as lending his voice to the harmonies of their songs, this was how
he was repaid- with disrespect.

It's interesting to note that when Ray finally did return with a song
on KOTK, it seemed that the wind had been taken out of his sails. His
self esteem had been stepped on and deflated.
I'm sure the fact that the other guys didn't support him took away a
lot of his confidence. Ray seemed to lose his sparkle. It wasn't the
same fun loving Ray who did "dr. livingstone, I presume", "legend of a
mind", or "veteran cosmic rocker".

No, the Ray Thomas who appeared on KOTK and Strange Times was a much
different man than what he had been in happier times with the band.
Here was a guy who had his sense of pride and self worth crushed by his
fellow band members - crushed under the weight of Justin & John's ego.


He had been stepped on, basically told "you're not worth anything...go
back to your whiskey bottle, you drunk,we can take care of it without
you. You don't matter!"

Sadly, all he had come up with, or was allowed, was a minute and half
song on Strange Times - apparently the band's final studio album. How
sad. It's too bad Ray wasn't allowed more to say.

Report this message

#2: Re: Ray Thomas and The Other Side Of Life

Posted on 2006-07-14 22:08:30 by Kevin Thurman

your theory re: Ray is one viewpoint....how 'bout another?

That Ray was coasting in his career at this point and wasn't really
interesting in contributing anything other than performing...I've read
interviews of both Justin & Tony Visconti who both said they were imploring
Ray to be more active during this time period but that he simply wasn't
interested (as far as songwriting goes).


&lt;<a href="mailto:tysteel3000&#64;aol.com" target="_blank">tysteel3000&#64;aol.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:<a href="mailto:1152905156.068729.266680&#64;b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com..." target="_blank">1152905156.068729.266680&#64;b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...</a>
&gt; Hi guys,
&gt;
&gt; Yesterday, I was listening to the Other Side Of Life CD. I was
&gt; checking out the band photo on the back of the CD case , as well as the
&gt; photo at the end of the booklet, and I thought Ray's facial expressions
&gt; were very telling.
&gt;
&gt; If you look at the band photo on the back of the CD case, Ray looks
&gt; sour and even a little upset. He just doesn't look happy, it's like
&gt; he'd rather be somewhere else. It's interesting to note that he looks
&gt; away from the camera while everyone else is preening and looking
&gt; involved for the photo shoot. Like they say, a picture can say a
&gt; thousand words. Also, if you look at the photo of Ray at the end of
&gt; the CD booklet, he has a scowl on his face.
&gt;
&gt; It is my understanding that Ray wanted to participate on this album,
&gt; but that the other band members simply weren't interested in helping
&gt; him out with his songs. Part of the reason is that Ray heavily relied
&gt; on the others to help him finish his songs, and they didn't want to
&gt; help unless if he cut them in on the songwriting credit. So when Ray
&gt; showed up to the studio the other guys just ignored him. This is what
&gt; I was told by a good source who was there, watching all of this going
&gt; on.
&gt;
&gt; I can only wonder what kind of interesting ideas and songs Ray could've
&gt; contributed to Other Side and Sur La Mer. While Justin &amp; John wrote
&gt; the big &quot;hits&quot;, Ray often came up with the lighter, more whimsical
&gt; moments. He came up with a lot of interesting, off the wall stuff
&gt; that was usually pretty cool at times. It would've provided a perfect
&gt; counterbalance to some of the more heavy songs the J's were putting on
&gt; those albums. In every way, Ray's songs often ended up being a
&gt; collaborative group effort, with all the guys throwing in musical ideas
&gt; to accompany Ray's lyrics, flute, and singing.
&gt;
&gt; I'm sure that this must've been a hit to Ray's sense of self worth and
&gt; self esteem when his own band members, in the band he helped co-found,
&gt; just didn't feel that they should support him and his songs. In other
&gt; words, Ray was being told that he wasn't good enough to be featured.
&gt; Afterall he had done for them, he helped them over the years as a team
&gt; player,on their songs with his flute, harmonica, and wind instrument
&gt; arrangements (would NIWS been the same without the flute solo?), as
&gt; well as lending his voice to the harmonies of their songs, this was how
&gt; he was repaid- with disrespect.
&gt;
&gt; It's interesting to note that when Ray finally did return with a song
&gt; on KOTK, it seemed that the wind had been taken out of his sails. His
&gt; self esteem had been stepped on and deflated.
&gt; I'm sure the fact that the other guys didn't support him took away a
&gt; lot of his confidence. Ray seemed to lose his sparkle. It wasn't the
&gt; same fun loving Ray who did &quot;dr. livingstone, I presume&quot;, &quot;legend of a
&gt; mind&quot;, or &quot;veteran cosmic rocker&quot;.
&gt;
&gt; No, the Ray Thomas who appeared on KOTK and Strange Times was a much
&gt; different man than what he had been in happier times with the band.
&gt; Here was a guy who had his sense of pride and self worth crushed by his
&gt; fellow band members - crushed under the weight of Justin &amp; John's ego.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; He had been stepped on, basically told &quot;you're not worth anything...go
&gt; back to your whiskey bottle, you drunk,we can take care of it without
&gt; you. You don't matter!&quot;
&gt;
&gt; Sadly, all he had come up with, or was allowed, was a minute and half
&gt; song on Strange Times - apparently the band's final studio album. How
&gt; sad. It's too bad Ray wasn't allowed more to say.
&gt;

Report this message

#3: Re: Ray Thomas and The Other Side Of Life

Posted on 2006-07-15 04:33:03 by tysteel3000

Kevin Thurman wrote:
&gt; your theory re: Ray is one viewpoint....how 'bout another?
&gt;
&gt; That Ray was coasting in his career at this point and wasn't really
&gt; interesting in contributing anything other than performing...I've read
&gt; interviews of both Justin &amp; Tony Visconti who both said they were imploring
&gt; Ray to be more active during this time period but that he simply wasn't
&gt; interested (as far as songwriting goes).

Dear Kevin,

The stuff you are quoting is simply political answers. Neither one of
the gentleman in question is going to say publicly what I've just
stated in my post; it's just common sense. They don't feel that the
fans can handle the truth. I have a very good source, and in fact,
there are a few people on this newsgroup who read a copy of
correspondense between me and this &quot;source&quot;. What I've just said in my
post isn't something that one day I just decided to make up. Ray's
roadie had to drive him home from the studio because the band just
ignored Ray when he wanted them to work on one of his songs.

The sad truth is that Ray didn't participate on Other Side Of Life or
Sur La Mer because his own band members wouldn't support him.
Interestingly enough, I have read &quot;talk&quot; on a couple of message boards
that Ray Thomas no longer speaks to any of the guys. . Whenever they
have called him at home, he just ignores them, according to the &quot;news&quot;
that has come up on some boards. It shouldn't really come as a
surprise.

Report this message

#4: Re: Ray Thomas and The Other Side Of Life

Posted on 2006-07-15 05:48:46 by Rick Massey

I see both sides as potentially accurate.

In the InterMoodynum, the band members did a rather interesting thing --
They did things on their own. I've read interviews that stated that during
the early years they composed together, working on songs as a collaborative
effort. After the InterMoodynum, they tended to write songs alone and bring
them to the band. Let's look at how this works with Ray.

Ray was one of the original members of the Milton Brewery Regulars, which
evolved into the Moody Blues. (I think I got that original name right . If I
didn't, I know someone will take great glee in correcting my error) He set
part of the tone of the band and how it composed. When he got back with the
band, there was a lot of havoc. Mike Pinder pretty much lost it, Tony Clarke
had to be talked down off a cliff because he was going to jump, and the
first album, Octave, was somewhat erratic. I don't know how they worked on
that album, but it was pretty clear that the band wasn't writing as a team
by the time that they penned songs like Gemini Dream and The Voice. And
though Ray turned in a great song for Long Distance Voyager, the band he
knew was in transition at the time.

So, here comes Ray, ready to work with the band again. Patrick is finally
integrated into the band, and he's looking forward to the old days. But
Justin and John, seasoned to work alone on their solo outings, are now in
solo working mode. Ray isn't ready for the change in paradigm, so he has
nothing to show as a completed work. Justin and John, who both have home
studios from their solo work, are doing a lot more by theirselves, and are
in the groove in creating songs, so they don't want to slow down and work on
something incomplete when they have all these tunes they already have
fleshed out.

When you get into a situation, if you do, to start composing with other
musicians, you'll understand this a whole lot better. Oftentimes, in several
of my projects, the creativity was flowing so fast and thick that if someone
wasn't in the rehearsal for whatever reason, they didn't get a vote because
there was no time to call them up and get their opinion. It gets that way a
lot when a group is writing or compiling an album.

So no one is to blame, it was just a situation of misunderstandings. This
seems more likely than either individual scenario put forth. As JMS said,
&quot;Truth is a three edged sword.&quot;
&lt;<a href="mailto:tysteel3000&#64;aol.com" target="_blank">tysteel3000&#64;aol.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:<a href="mailto:1152930783.845477.137380&#64;i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com..." target="_blank">1152930783.845477.137380&#64;i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...</a>
&gt;
&gt; Kevin Thurman wrote:
&gt;&gt; your theory re: Ray is one viewpoint....how 'bout another?
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; That Ray was coasting in his career at this point and wasn't really
&gt;&gt; interesting in contributing anything other than performing...I've read
&gt;&gt; interviews of both Justin &amp; Tony Visconti who both said they were
&gt;&gt; imploring
&gt;&gt; Ray to be more active during this time period but that he simply wasn't
&gt;&gt; interested (as far as songwriting goes).
&gt;
&gt; Dear Kevin,
&gt;
&gt; The stuff you are quoting is simply political answers. Neither one of
&gt; the gentleman in question is going to say publicly what I've just
&gt; stated in my post; it's just common sense. They don't feel that the
&gt; fans can handle the truth. I have a very good source, and in fact,
&gt; there are a few people on this newsgroup who read a copy of
&gt; correspondense between me and this &quot;source&quot;. What I've just said in my
&gt; post isn't something that one day I just decided to make up. Ray's
&gt; roadie had to drive him home from the studio because the band just
&gt; ignored Ray when he wanted them to work on one of his songs.
&gt;
&gt; The sad truth is that Ray didn't participate on Other Side Of Life or
&gt; Sur La Mer because his own band members wouldn't support him.
&gt; Interestingly enough, I have read &quot;talk&quot; on a couple of message boards
&gt; that Ray Thomas no longer speaks to any of the guys. . Whenever they
&gt; have called him at home, he just ignores them, according to the &quot;news&quot;
&gt; that has come up on some boards. It shouldn't really come as a
&gt; surprise.
&gt;

Report this message

#5: Re: Ray Thomas and The Other Side Of Life

Posted on 2006-07-15 15:39:38 by tysteel3000

Rick Massey wrote:

&gt;
&gt; So, here comes Ray, ready to work with the band again. Patrick is finally
&gt; integrated into the band,

I'm not sure that Patrick was ever fully integrated into the band.
According to the source I talked to, who was there at the sessions for
Other Side and Sur La Mer, Patrick always had a bad attitude and was
acting the victim, even though he was making more money than the rest
of the guys. I suppose this had to do with all the upfront money he
was demanding. He was described to me as a being a&quot;spoiled brat&quot;.
Whenever the guys would try to encourage Patrick and give him
compliments on his arrangements, he would often just shrug his
shoulders and sneer at them. Patrick had a sweet deal working for the
Moody Blues but he blew it with his ego.

Report this message

#6: Re: Ray Thomas and The Other Side Of Life

Posted on 2006-07-15 17:33:28 by Nicole Massey

&lt;<a href="mailto:tysteel3000&#64;aol.com" target="_blank">tysteel3000&#64;aol.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:<a href="mailto:1152970778.449490.38750&#64;i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com..." target="_blank">1152970778.449490.38750&#64;i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...</a>
&gt;
&gt; Rick Massey wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; So, here comes Ray, ready to work with the band again. Patrick is finally
&gt;&gt; integrated into the band,
&gt;
&gt; I'm not sure that Patrick was ever fully integrated into the band.
&gt; According to the source I talked to, who was there at the sessions for
&gt; Other Side and Sur La Mer, Patrick always had a bad attitude and was
&gt; acting the victim, even though he was making more money than the rest
&gt; of the guys. I suppose this had to do with all the upfront money he
&gt; was demanding. He was described to me as a being a&quot;spoiled brat&quot;.
&gt; Whenever the guys would try to encourage Patrick and give him
&gt; compliments on his arrangements, he would often just shrug his
&gt; shoulders and sneer at them. Patrick had a sweet deal working for the
&gt; Moody Blues but he blew it with his ego.
&gt;
Well, at least he had a writing credit on Other Side.

Report this message

#7: Re: Ray Thomas and The Other Side Of Life

Posted on 2006-07-16 03:06:51 by CHC - The Christian Hate Center

Rick Massey wrote:
&gt;
&gt; Ray was one of the original members of the Milton Brewery Regulars, which
&gt; evolved into the Moody Blues. (I think I got that original name right . If I
&gt; didn't, I know someone will take great glee in correcting my error) He set
&gt; part of the tone of the band and how it composed. When he got back with the
&gt; band, there was a lot of havoc. Mike Pinder pretty much lost it, Tony Clarke
&gt; had to be talked down off a cliff because he was going to jump, and the
&gt; first album, Octave, was somewhat erratic.


Huh?

Report this message

#8: Re: Ray Thomas and The Other Side Of Life

Posted on 2006-07-16 05:05:11 by Rick Massey

Not sure what you're saying Huh to. If it's the reference to Octave, context
is your friend. It was the first collaborative album after the
InterMoodynum.
&quot;CHC - The Christian Hate Center&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:LidsvilleNine&#64;socket.net" target="_blank">LidsvilleNine&#64;socket.net</a>&gt; wrote in
message news:<a href="mailto:1153012011.647054.267850&#64;75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com..." target="_blank">1153012011.647054.267850&#64;75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...</a>
&gt;
&gt; Rick Massey wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Ray was one of the original members of the Milton Brewery Regulars, which
&gt;&gt; evolved into the Moody Blues. (I think I got that original name right .
&gt;&gt; If I
&gt;&gt; didn't, I know someone will take great glee in correcting my error) He
&gt;&gt; set
&gt;&gt; part of the tone of the band and how it composed. When he got back with
&gt;&gt; the
&gt;&gt; band, there was a lot of havoc. Mike Pinder pretty much lost it, Tony
&gt;&gt; Clarke
&gt;&gt; had to be talked down off a cliff because he was going to jump, and the
&gt;&gt; first album, Octave, was somewhat erratic.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Huh?
&gt;

Report this message

#9: Re: Ray Thomas and The Other Side Of Life

Posted on 2006-07-17 07:22:33 by CHC - The Christian Hate Center

Rick Massey wrote:
&gt; Not sure what you're saying Huh to. If it's the reference to Octave, context
&gt; is your friend. It was the first collaborative album after the
&gt; InterMoodynum.

Huh?



&gt; &quot;CHC - The Christian Hate Center&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:LidsvilleNine&#64;socket.net" target="_blank">LidsvilleNine&#64;socket.net</a>&gt; wrote in
&gt; message news:<a href="mailto:1153012011.647054.267850&#64;75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com..." target="_blank">1153012011.647054.267850&#64;75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...</a>
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Rick Massey wrote:
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; Ray was one of the original members of the Milton Brewery Regulars, which
&gt; &gt;&gt; evolved into the Moody Blues. (I think I got that original name right .
&gt; &gt;&gt; If I
&gt; &gt;&gt; didn't, I know someone will take great glee in correcting my error) He
&gt; &gt;&gt; set
&gt; &gt;&gt; part of the tone of the band and how it composed. When he got back with
&gt; &gt;&gt; the
&gt; &gt;&gt; band, there was a lot of havoc. Mike Pinder pretty much lost it, Tony
&gt; &gt;&gt; Clarke
&gt; &gt;&gt; had to be talked down off a cliff because he was going to jump, and the
&gt; &gt;&gt; first album, Octave, was somewhat erratic.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Huh?
&gt; &gt;

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