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#1: Stirring things up

Posted on 2005-06-14 16:24:06 by pmfan57

Thank you Johnny Asia for stirring things up around here with that fun
Midnight Special topic. It was getting pretty bland.

Report this message

#2: Re: Stirring things up

Posted on 2005-06-14 17:55:53 by El Kabong

On 14 Jun 2005 07:24:06 -0700, &quot;pmfan57&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:jwragusa&#64;aol.com" target="_blank">jwragusa&#64;aol.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;Thank you Johnny Asia for stirring things up around here with that fun
&gt;Midnight Special topic. It was getting pretty bland.


It's all in a day's work for a Hippie rabblerouser!

Sleaking of stirring things up, the annual RMMGJ
shindig in Kingston, NY is coming up soon.

Sat. July 9
8 PM until ?

AIR Studio Gallery
71 O'Neil St
Kingston, NY
<a href="http://airstudiogallery.com" target="_blank">http://airstudiogallery.com</a>

Dr. Willie Yee will be playing with Nate Cohen
8 PM

9-11 PM
Dom Minasi, Joe Finn and Johnny Asia

Special guests:
vocalist Carol Mennie
violinist Richard Carr



Jamming afterwards, until ?
+

Johnny Asia, Hippie Guitarist
<a href="http://johnnyasia.info" target="_blank">http://johnnyasia.info</a>

<a href="http://www.angelfire.com/art2/painterny/johnny/ja2.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.angelfire.com/art2/painterny/johnny/ja2.jpg</a>


&quot;I say play your own way. Don't play what the public wants. You play what
you want and let the public pick up on what you're doing even if it does take
them fifteen, twenty years.&quot; - Thelonious Monk

Report this message

#3: Re: Stirring things up

Posted on 2005-06-14 17:56:47 by Tom Walls

In article &lt;<a href="mailto:1118759046.696041.238020&#64;o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com" target="_blank">1118759046.696041.238020&#64;o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com</a>&gt;,
<a href="mailto:jwragusa&#64;aol.com" target="_blank">jwragusa&#64;aol.com</a> says...
&gt; Thank you Johnny Asia for stirring things up around here with that fun
&gt; Midnight Special topic. It was getting pretty bland.
&gt;
&gt;
Too true! And thank you, Joe, for being willing to challenge Richard
regarding the &quot;best jazz guitarist ever&quot;! (Seriously, humorously)
--
Tom Walls
the guy at the Temple of Zeus

Report this message

#4: Re: Stirring things up

Posted on 2005-06-14 18:01:54 by davidjl

&quot;Johnny Asia&quot; &lt;poki_pongo at yahoo.com&gt; wrote:
&gt; On 14 Jun 2005 07:24:06 -0700, &quot;pmfan57&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:jwragusa&#64;aol.com" target="_blank">jwragusa&#64;aol.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;Thank you Johnny Asia for stirring things up around here with that fun
&gt;&gt;Midnight Special topic. It was getting pretty bland.
&gt;
&gt; It's all in a day's work for a Hippie rabblerouser!

Yes. An excellent piece of work there!

By the way, I reread your original note, and all it said was that Glenn
Campbell was good, not that he was better than Benson. It functioned as a
sort of Rorsarch (sp?) test for everyone's craziness to come out.

Flipping brilliant.

David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan

Report this message

#5: Re: Stirring things up

Posted on 2005-06-14 18:46:23 by mleggetNOHONKINSPAM

On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 01:01:54 +0900, &quot;David J. Littleboy&quot;
&lt;<a href="mailto:davidjl&#64;gol.com" target="_blank">davidjl&#64;gol.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;
&gt;&quot;Johnny Asia&quot; &lt;poki_pongo at yahoo.com&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt; On 14 Jun 2005 07:24:06 -0700, &quot;pmfan57&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:jwragusa&#64;aol.com" target="_blank">jwragusa&#64;aol.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;Thank you Johnny Asia for stirring things up around here with that fun
&gt;&gt;&gt;Midnight Special topic. It was getting pretty bland.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; It's all in a day's work for a Hippie rabblerouser!
&gt;
&gt;Yes. An excellent piece of work there!
&gt;
&gt;By the way, I reread your original note, and all it said was that Glenn
&gt;Campbell was good, not that he was better than Benson. It functioned as a
&gt;sort of Rorsarch (sp?) test for everyone's craziness to come out.

It's evident to all thinking people that Donovan could clean Benson's
clock when it comes to Travis picking. And I have six tie-died folkies
that agree with me.






------------------------------------------------------------ --
&quot;If the gods wanted us to twist our spines about
while we played guitar, they would have given us
rubber bands rather than vertebrae. And then where
would humanity be? Propelling cornflakes box
submarines in some alien bathtub in an ungodly
time dimension where the music of the spheres
consisted of Kenny G.&quot;
Spinoza
------------------------------------------------------------ --

Report this message

#6: Re: Stirring things up

Posted on 2005-06-14 19:32:15 by pmfan57

After having hung out with him, I now consider Richard to be my good
friend. He is a great guy. But it's fun to argue!

Palin: &quot;Look, I came here for an argument!&quot;

Cleese: &quot;No you didn't.&quot;


Joe

Tom Walls wrote:
&gt; In article &lt;<a href="mailto:1118759046.696041.238020&#64;o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com" target="_blank">1118759046.696041.238020&#64;o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com</a>&gt;,
&gt; <a href="mailto:jwragusa&#64;aol.com" target="_blank">jwragusa&#64;aol.com</a> says...
&gt; &gt; Thank you Johnny Asia for stirring things up around here with that fun
&gt; &gt; Midnight Special topic. It was getting pretty bland.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;
&gt; Too true! And thank you, Joe, for being willing to challenge Richard
&gt; regarding the &quot;best jazz guitarist ever&quot;! (Seriously, humorously)
&gt; --
&gt; Tom Walls
&gt; the guy at the Temple of Zeus

Report this message

#7: Re: Stirring things up

Posted on 2005-06-14 19:58:57 by Tom Walls

In article &lt;<a href="mailto:1118770335.787429.294270&#64;g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com" target="_blank">1118770335.787429.294270&#64;g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com</a>&gt;,
<a href="mailto:jwragusa&#64;aol.com" target="_blank">jwragusa&#64;aol.com</a> says...
&gt; After having hung out with him, I now consider Richard to be my good
&gt; friend. He is a great guy. But it's fun to argue!
&gt;
&gt; Palin: &quot;Look, I came here for an argument!&quot;
&gt;
&gt; Cleese: &quot;No you didn't.&quot;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Joe
&gt;

That's no argument, that's a simple contradiction!
--
Tom Walls
the guy at the Temple of Zeus

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#8: Re: Stirring things up

Posted on 2005-06-14 20:11:06 by pmfan57

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#9: Re: Stirring things up

Posted on 2005-06-14 20:12:08 by pmfan57

No, it isn't.


Tom Walls wrote:

&gt;
&gt; That's no argument, that's a simple contradiction!
&gt; --
&gt; Tom Walls
&gt; the guy at the Temple of Zeus

Report this message

#10: Re: Stirring things up

Posted on 2005-06-14 21:09:37 by David Raleigh Arnold

On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 16:46:23 +0000, Max Leggett wrote:

&gt; On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 01:01:54 +0900, &quot;David J. Littleboy&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:davidjl&#64;gol.com" target="_blank">davidjl&#64;gol.com</a>&gt;
&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt;&quot;Johnny Asia&quot; &lt;poki_pongo at yahoo.com&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt; On 14 Jun 2005 07:24:06 -0700, &quot;pmfan57&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:jwragusa&#64;aol.com" target="_blank">jwragusa&#64;aol.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;Thank you Johnny Asia for stirring things up around here with that fun
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;Midnight Special topic. It was getting pretty bland.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; It's all in a day's work for a Hippie rabblerouser!
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;Yes. An excellent piece of work there!
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;By the way, I reread your original note, and all it said was that Glenn
&gt;&gt;Campbell was good, not that he was better than Benson. It functioned as a
&gt;&gt;sort of Rorsarch (sp?) test for everyone's craziness to come out.
&gt;
&gt; It's evident to all thinking people that Donovan could clean Benson's
&gt; clock when it comes to Travis picking. And I have six tie-died folkies
&gt; that agree with me.

Glen Campbell was a studio flatpicker.

Old school. He worked out with fiddle tunes. I heard him play
Clarinet Polka one time.

Leave me out of the learned comparison forensics. daveA

--
The only technical exercises for all guitarists worth a lifetime
of practice: &quot;Dynamic Guitar Technique&quot;. Nothing else is close.
Free download: <a href="http://www.openguitar.com/instruction.html" target="_blank">http://www.openguitar.com/instruction.html</a>
daveA David Raleigh Arnold dra..at..openguitar.com

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#11: Re: Stirring things up

Posted on 2005-06-15 00:07:25 by Richard Bornman

I agree.
I personally enjoy the &quot;flamefests&quot;. Without the &quot;possibility&quot; of one
happening I would no doubt stop visiting here.
I dont understand the people who constantly chide and say &quot;lets keep it
quiet&quot; etc etc. Disagreement is the lifeblood of usenet...

BTW Rodney Jones used these exact words:

&quot;Benson is the worlds greatest jazz guitarist&quot;

Report this message

#12: Re: Stirring things up

Posted on 2005-06-15 00:07:31 by Richard Bornman

I agree.
I personally enjoy the &quot;flamefests&quot;. Without the &quot;possibility&quot; of one
happening I would no doubt stop visiting here.
I dont understand the people who constantly chide and say &quot;lets keep it
quiet&quot; etc etc. Disagreement is the lifeblood of usenet...

BTW Rodney Jones used these exact words:

&quot;Benson is the worlds greatest jazz guitarist&quot;

Report this message

#13: Re: Stirring things up

Posted on 2005-06-15 03:20:52 by El Kabong

On 14 Jun 2005 15:07:31 -0700, &quot;RB&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:richardbornman&#64;ozemail.com.au" target="_blank">richardbornman&#64;ozemail.com.au</a>&gt;
wrote:


&gt;BTW Rodney Jones used these exact words:
&gt;
&gt;&quot;Benson is the worlds greatest jazz guitarist&quot;

Uh oh, it looks like it's time for Round 2!
+

Johnny Asia, Hippie Guitarist
<a href="http://johnnyasia.info" target="_blank">http://johnnyasia.info</a>

<a href="http://www.angelfire.com/art2/painterny/johnny/ja2.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.angelfire.com/art2/painterny/johnny/ja2.jpg</a>


&quot;I say play your own way. Don't play what the public wants. You play what
you want and let the public pick up on what you're doing even if it does take
them fifteen, twenty years.&quot; - Thelonious Monk

Report this message

#14: Re: Stirring things up

Posted on 2005-06-15 04:24:49 by pmfan57

What do you expect him to say? As a matter of fact, on any of those
Timeless Muse albums of his, Rodney played more jazz than Benson has
recorded in thirty years. Benson recorded jazz lines over funk vamps
and grooves for so many years. Coolest guitar sound and feel, but
almost never over jazz. To really see if he is still great at jazz, he
has to play jazz on record a number of times. Not just privately for
his good friend and disciple. When was the last time he recorded an
entire album of jazz? Let see--the 1960's?? The live sessions with
Mickey Tucker are not really albums, although they have some of the
greatest jazz playing. Could Ali come back now? Could Fischer? Could
Joe Piscapo????

Legend has it that Joe Piscapo can do solo comedy much better than
Lenny Bruce ever could, but only for himself.

RB wrote:
&gt; I agree.
&gt; I personally enjoy the &quot;flamefests&quot;. Without the &quot;possibility&quot; of one
&gt; happening I would no doubt stop visiting here.
&gt; I dont understand the people who constantly chide and say &quot;lets keep it
&gt; quiet&quot; etc etc. Disagreement is the lifeblood of usenet...
&gt;
&gt; BTW Rodney Jones used these exact words:
&gt;
&gt; &quot;Benson is the worlds greatest jazz guitarist&quot;

Report this message

#15: Re: Stirring things up

Posted on 2005-06-15 04:31:51 by pmfan57

Bireli is the greatest &quot;guitarist&quot; currently playing a form of jazz.
Benson is one of the top &quot;jazz guitarists&quot; of all time. It's not the
same thing. No one, not even Benson, is as good a guitarist, regarding
comprehensive top to bottom technique, with a pick as Bireli. But
Benson was, in those rare moments in which he played jazz, one of the
all time great jazz guitarists. Almost at the rarified
Bean/Pass/Montgomery level of lines, but with even more amazing chops
starting with his late CTI stuff. His chops were a little inconsistent
before that, although he played real good even when he was not at his
best. I'm sure he can still do it, but he hasn't recorded anything in
that vein in a long time.

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#16: Re: Stirring things up

Posted on 2005-06-15 09:11:41 by d.onstenk

Personally I don't give a rat's ass who is the best because the question
itself is not valid. It's a question that can never be answered objectively,
only subjectively. Best simply means &quot;what I happen to like best right now&quot;.
So it is a useless term to describe a phenomenon that does not even exist as
an established fact in reality but only as an argumentation. It's all very
simple. THE BEST GUITARIST ONLY EXISTS IN YOUR MIND BUT NOT IN THE REAL
WORLD. He's a phantom. A ghost. A dream. An opinion. An attitude. An
argumentation at best. But never a fact so never for real.

So what Rodney Jones has to say on the issue has very little value too. You
can use him to back up your argument and add persuasion to your statement
(he's a credible source) but in the end it's just another opinion or
attitude which belongs to the shady realm of subjectivity.

So I still think that Doug Raney is a better guitarist than Benson. Why?
Because I like his music better. Because he speaks to me more. Eh .....
BECAUSE I SAY SO!

Guitar playing is not about variables such as technique, speed,
articulation, time, sound etc. at all simply because playing guitar is NOT a
contest and NOT science. So the final verdict lies invariably with the
listener.

Accomplished players are not better than their peers, only different.

Your turn Richard.

#####








&quot;RB&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:richardbornman&#64;ozemail.com.au" target="_blank">richardbornman&#64;ozemail.com.au</a>&gt; schreef in bericht
news:<a href="mailto:1118786844.976970.191630&#64;g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com..." target="_blank">1118786844.976970.191630&#64;g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...</a>
&gt;I agree.
&gt; I personally enjoy the &quot;flamefests&quot;. Without the &quot;possibility&quot; of one
&gt; happening I would no doubt stop visiting here.
&gt; I dont understand the people who constantly chide and say &quot;lets keep it
&gt; quiet&quot; etc etc. Disagreement is the lifeblood of usenet...
&gt;
&gt; BTW Rodney Jones used these exact words:
&gt;
&gt; &quot;Benson is the worlds greatest jazz guitarist&quot;
&gt;

Report this message

#17: Re: Stirring things up

Posted on 2005-06-15 12:49:43 by Hans van Leeuwen

&quot;Five Sharp&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:d.onstenk&#64;chello.nl" target="_blank">d.onstenk&#64;chello.nl</a>&gt; schreef in bericht
news:55f3d$42afdc33$5039c70c$<a href="mailto:8046&#64;news.chello.nl..." target="_blank">8046&#64;news.chello.nl...</a>
.. THE BEST GUITARIST ONLY EXISTS IN YOUR MIND BUT NOT IN THE REAL
&gt; WORLD. He's a phantom. A ghost. A dream. An opinion. An attitude. An
&gt; argumentation at best. But never a fact so never for real.
&gt;
&gt; Guitar playing is not about variables such as technique, speed,
&gt; articulation, time, sound etc. at all simply because playing guitar is NOT
a
&gt; contest and NOT science. So the final verdict lies invariably with the
&gt; listener.
&gt;
&gt; Accomplished players are not better than their peers, only different.

Very well stated Dick and I agree completely! Although a classification on
musical grounds is inevitable (separating the weat from the chaff), it seems
to me that in America (and Australia evidently) the contest and rivalry-idea
on technical grounds is more prominent than in Europe (and in Holland
consequently). That may be the reason why note-eaters like Bireli, Luc and
others are ranked that high over there. Neverheless (except for Django) all
pioneering players are American. Over the years my 'best' players were (in
chronological order) Tal Farlow, Barney Kessel, Wes Montgomery, Jim Hall,
Pat Martino, Pat Metheny. Indeed, none of them is better than the other!
Hans

Report this message

#18: Re: Stirring things up

Posted on 2005-06-15 12:51:24 by Richard Bornman

I also don't care who is the best...in fact i dont think such a thing
exists. BUT I do think you have players that are better than others in
an absolute sense. I play better than a beginner student, to cite an
extreme example. When players get to be more competent, this
distinction becomes more diff to make, but I still believe it is there.
The thing is where you draw the line.

Dick,if you believe there are no better or worse players at a certain
level, which level would this be? at which point can you switch off the
discrimination factor?

RB

Five Sharp wrote:
&gt; Personally I don't give a rat's ass who is the best because the question
&gt; itself is not valid. It's a question that can never be answered objectively,
&gt; only subjectively. Best simply means &quot;what I happen to like best right now&quot;.
&gt; So it is a useless term to describe a phenomenon that does not even exist as
&gt; an established fact in reality but only as an argumentation. It's all very
&gt; simple. THE BEST GUITARIST ONLY EXISTS IN YOUR MIND BUT NOT IN THE REAL
&gt; WORLD. He's a phantom. A ghost. A dream. An opinion. An attitude. An
&gt; argumentation at best. But never a fact so never for real.
&gt;
&gt; So what Rodney Jones has to say on the issue has very little value too. You
&gt; can use him to back up your argument and add persuasion to your statement
&gt; (he's a credible source) but in the end it's just another opinion or
&gt; attitude which belongs to the shady realm of subjectivity.
&gt;
&gt; So I still think that Doug Raney is a better guitarist than Benson. Why?
&gt; Because I like his music better. Because he speaks to me more. Eh .....
&gt; BECAUSE I SAY SO!
&gt;
&gt; Guitar playing is not about variables such as technique, speed,
&gt; articulation, time, sound etc. at all simply because playing guitar is NOT a
&gt; contest and NOT science. So the final verdict lies invariably with the
&gt; listener.
&gt;
&gt; Accomplished players are not better than their peers, only different.
&gt;
&gt; Your turn Richard.
&gt;
&gt; #####
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; &quot;RB&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:richardbornman&#64;ozemail.com.au" target="_blank">richardbornman&#64;ozemail.com.au</a>&gt; schreef in bericht
&gt; news:<a href="mailto:1118786844.976970.191630&#64;g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com..." target="_blank">1118786844.976970.191630&#64;g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...</a>
&gt; &gt;I agree.
&gt; &gt; I personally enjoy the &quot;flamefests&quot;. Without the &quot;possibility&quot; of one
&gt; &gt; happening I would no doubt stop visiting here.
&gt; &gt; I dont understand the people who constantly chide and say &quot;lets keep it
&gt; &gt; quiet&quot; etc etc. Disagreement is the lifeblood of usenet...
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; BTW Rodney Jones used these exact words:
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; &quot;Benson is the worlds greatest jazz guitarist&quot;
&gt; &gt;

Report this message

#19: Re: Stirring things up

Posted on 2005-06-15 13:04:34 by Richard Bornman

Hans,
Nice to have your view!

My view differs from yours in a few ways. I find your classification
too coarse. Sure each player is a legend, but they all have strengths
and weaknesses.
Farlow had weak time, but good harmonic skills and plenty of fire.In
contrast Wes had good time and his amazing originality. Barney had an
exploratory approach, but his melodic concept was old fashioned. Hall
has an amazing concept, but he lacks fire and technique, Martino lacks
rhythmic variety. Metheny is a genius who seems to lack very little...
Personally i like a player to have all his skills developed in balance.

ie:
good time (which means good technique to me)
originality
solo gtr skills
ability to play gtr trio
good grasp of harmony
lyrical ability with melody
fire!

just my humble thoughts,

RB

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#20: Re: Stirring things up

Posted on 2005-06-15 14:17:25 by d.onstenk

Hi Richard,

I agree that it is hard indeed to determine when the discrimination factor
should be switched off. I have earlier stated that I think the comparative
&quot;better&quot; and superlative &quot;best&quot; should only be used at student level. It IS
possible to speak of better and best in undeveloped and unaccomplished
styles so the term is prabably appropriate for students.

I think where you draw the line is subjective again. To me it's the level
where you are dealing with players that have a reputation, an oeuvre of
recordings, a musical history and a fan base. All classic and known
contemporary players fall in that category. You could call them &quot;name
players.&quot;

Note the absence of the term &quot;pro&quot; in my argumentation. That has NOTHING to
do with it. &quot;Pro&quot; to me is an economic term that indicates if someone makes
a living playing. It has nothing to do with proficiency or skill. I have
heard pros that play like students and amateurs that play like name players.

But I realize in my argumentation there are no objective variables. So it
remains kind of subjective, like everything in assessing art.

It's good and fun to argue like this by the way.

#####








&quot;RB&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:richardbornman&#64;ozemail.com.au" target="_blank">richardbornman&#64;ozemail.com.au</a>&gt; schreef in bericht
news:<a href="mailto:1118832684.460157.31900&#64;o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com..." target="_blank">1118832684.460157.31900&#64;o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...</a>
&gt;I also don't care who is the best...in fact i dont think such a thing
&gt; exists. BUT I do think you have players that are better than others in
&gt; an absolute sense. I play better than a beginner student, to cite an
&gt; extreme example. When players get to be more competent, this
&gt; distinction becomes more diff to make, but I still believe it is there.
&gt; The thing is where you draw the line.
&gt;
&gt; Dick,if you believe there are no better or worse players at a certain
&gt; level, which level would this be? at which point can you switch off the
&gt; discrimination factor?
&gt;
&gt; RB
&gt;
&gt; Five Sharp wrote:
&gt;&gt; Personally I don't give a rat's ass who is the best because the question
&gt;&gt; itself is not valid. It's a question that can never be answered
&gt;&gt; objectively,
&gt;&gt; only subjectively. Best simply means &quot;what I happen to like best right
&gt;&gt; now&quot;.
&gt;&gt; So it is a useless term to describe a phenomenon that does not even exist
&gt;&gt; as
&gt;&gt; an established fact in reality but only as an argumentation. It's all
&gt;&gt; very
&gt;&gt; simple. THE BEST GUITARIST ONLY EXISTS IN YOUR MIND BUT NOT IN THE REAL
&gt;&gt; WORLD. He's a phantom. A ghost. A dream. An opinion. An attitude. An
&gt;&gt; argumentation at best. But never a fact so never for real.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; So what Rodney Jones has to say on the issue has very little value too.
&gt;&gt; You
&gt;&gt; can use him to back up your argument and add persuasion to your statement
&gt;&gt; (he's a credible source) but in the end it's just another opinion or
&gt;&gt; attitude which belongs to the shady realm of subjectivity.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; So I still think that Doug Raney is a better guitarist than Benson. Why?
&gt;&gt; Because I like his music better. Because he speaks to me more. Eh .....
&gt;&gt; BECAUSE I SAY SO!
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Guitar playing is not about variables such as technique, speed,
&gt;&gt; articulation, time, sound etc. at all simply because playing guitar is
&gt;&gt; NOT a
&gt;&gt; contest and NOT science. So the final verdict lies invariably with the
&gt;&gt; listener.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Accomplished players are not better than their peers, only different.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Your turn Richard.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; #####
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; &quot;RB&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:richardbornman&#64;ozemail.com.au" target="_blank">richardbornman&#64;ozemail.com.au</a>&gt; schreef in bericht
&gt;&gt; news:<a href="mailto:1118786844.976970.191630&#64;g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com..." target="_blank">1118786844.976970.191630&#64;g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...</a>
&gt;&gt; &gt;I agree.
&gt;&gt; &gt; I personally enjoy the &quot;flamefests&quot;. Without the &quot;possibility&quot; of one
&gt;&gt; &gt; happening I would no doubt stop visiting here.
&gt;&gt; &gt; I dont understand the people who constantly chide and say &quot;lets keep it
&gt;&gt; &gt; quiet&quot; etc etc. Disagreement is the lifeblood of usenet...
&gt;&gt; &gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt; BTW Rodney Jones used these exact words:
&gt;&gt; &gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt; &quot;Benson is the worlds greatest jazz guitarist&quot;
&gt;&gt; &gt;
&gt;

Report this message

#21: Re: Stirring things up

Posted on 2005-06-15 14:27:41 by Tom Walls

In article &lt;<a href="mailto:1118833474.630202.277280&#64;g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com" target="_blank">1118833474.630202.277280&#64;g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com</a>&gt;,
<a href="mailto:richardbornman&#64;ozemail.com.au" target="_blank">richardbornman&#64;ozemail.com.au</a> says...
&gt; Hans,
&gt; Nice to have your view!
&gt;
&gt; My view differs from yours in a few ways. I find your classification
&gt; too coarse. Sure each player is a legend, but they all have strengths
&gt; and weaknesses.
&gt; Farlow had weak time, but good harmonic skills and plenty of fire.In
&gt; contrast Wes had good time and his amazing originality. Barney had an
&gt; exploratory approach, but his melodic concept was old fashioned. Hall
&gt; has an amazing concept, but he lacks fire and technique, Martino lacks
&gt; rhythmic variety. Metheny is a genius who seems to lack very little...
&gt; Personally i like a player to have all his skills developed in balance.
&gt;
&gt; ie:
&gt; good time (which means good technique to me)
&gt; originality
&gt; solo gtr skills
&gt; ability to play gtr trio
&gt; good grasp of harmony
&gt; lyrical ability with melody
&gt; fire!
&gt;
&gt; just my humble thoughts,
&gt;
&gt; RB
&gt;
&gt;
I see the virtue in your perspective, but, just for contrast, my own
preferences lie in a player's ability to contribute beauty to a musical
performance. Occasionally I may hear a player's limited technique
compromise their ideas, but more often a clam or a badly intonated note
just adds character to the moment. On the other hand, I have often had a
feeling of exhaustion listening to some our most acclaimed players, as
though they're trying to put two gallons of water in a one gallon jug.
Jazz has so many virtuosos that one becomes jaded.



--
Tom Walls
the guy at the Temple of Zeus

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#22: Re: Stirring things up

Posted on 2005-06-15 14:54:36 by pmfan57

And those qualities add up to: Richard Bornman. Emperor of
Australia. (No, sorry; that was Lex Luthor's title.) Ace of the
Antipodes. The Oscar Aleman of the Outback.

RB wrote:
&gt; Hans,
&gt; Nice to have your view!
&gt;
&gt; My view differs from yours in a few ways. I find your classification
&gt; too coarse. Sure each player is a legend, but they all have strengths
&gt; and weaknesses.
&gt; Farlow had weak time, but good harmonic skills and plenty of fire.In
&gt; contrast Wes had good time and his amazing originality. Barney had an
&gt; exploratory approach, but his melodic concept was old fashioned. Hall
&gt; has an amazing concept, but he lacks fire and technique, Martino lacks
&gt; rhythmic variety. Metheny is a genius who seems to lack very little...
&gt; Personally i like a player to have all his skills developed in balance.
&gt;
&gt; ie:
&gt; good time (which means good technique to me)
&gt; originality
&gt; solo gtr skills
&gt; ability to play gtr trio
&gt; good grasp of harmony
&gt; lyrical ability with melody
&gt; fire!
&gt;
&gt; just my humble thoughts,
&gt;
&gt; RB

Report this message

#23: Re: Stirring things up

Posted on 2005-06-15 14:59:38 by bob r

in article d8p6ru$oic$<a href="mailto:1&#64;ruby.cit.cornell.edu" target="_blank">1&#64;ruby.cit.cornell.edu</a>, Tom Walls at <a href="mailto:tw25&#64;cornell.edu" target="_blank">tw25&#64;cornell.edu</a>
wrote on 6/15/05 8:27 AM:

&gt; On the other hand, I have often had a
&gt; feeling of exhaustion listening to some our most acclaimed players, as
&gt; though they're trying to put two gallons of water in a one gallon jug.
&gt; Jazz has so many virtuosos that one becomes jaded.

I hear you. In the name of &quot;virtuosity&quot;, sometimes important things are
forgotten... like &quot;what am I really hearing?&quot; and &quot;what do I really mean?&quot;.

There's more than one kind of fire, too. Raging infernos, cozy blazes in the
fireplace, smoldering charcoal...
--
Bob Russell
<a href="http://www.bobrussellguitar.com" target="_blank">http://www.bobrussellguitar.com</a>
<a href="http://www.cdbaby.com/bobrussell" target="_blank">http://www.cdbaby.com/bobrussell</a>

Report this message

#24: Re: Stirring things up

Posted on 2005-06-15 15:04:32 by bob r

in article <a href="mailto:1118833474.630202.277280&#64;g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com" target="_blank">1118833474.630202.277280&#64;g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com</a>, RB at
<a href="mailto:richardbornman&#64;ozemail.com.au" target="_blank">richardbornman&#64;ozemail.com.au</a> wrote on 6/15/05 7:04 AM:

&gt; Hall has an amazing concept, but he lacks fire and technique,

Define &quot;fire&quot;.

--
Bob Russell
<a href="http://www.bobrussellguitar.com" target="_blank">http://www.bobrussellguitar.com</a>
<a href="http://www.cdbaby.com/bobrussell" target="_blank">http://www.cdbaby.com/bobrussell</a>

Report this message

#25: Re: Stirring things up

Posted on 2005-06-15 16:17:48 by Hans van Leeuwen

&quot;RB&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:richardbornman&#64;ozemail.com.au" target="_blank">richardbornman&#64;ozemail.com.au</a>&gt; schreef in bericht
news:<a href="mailto:1118833474.630202.277280&#64;g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com..." target="_blank">1118833474.630202.277280&#64;g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...</a>
&gt; Hans,
&gt; Nice to have your view!
&gt;
&gt; My view differs from yours in a few ways. I find your classification
&gt; too coarse. Sure each player is a legend, but they all have strengths
&gt; and weaknesses.
&gt; Farlow had weak time, but good harmonic skills and plenty of fire.In
&gt; contrast Wes had good time and his amazing originality. Barney had an
&gt; exploratory approach, but his melodic concept was old fashioned. Hall
&gt; has an amazing concept, but he lacks fire and technique, Martino lacks
&gt; rhythmic variety. Metheny is a genius who seems to lack very little...
&gt; Personally i like a player to have all his skills developed in balance.
&gt;
&gt; ie:
&gt; good time (which means good technique to me)
&gt; originality
&gt; solo gtr skills
&gt; ability to play gtr trio
&gt; good grasp of harmony
&gt; lyrical ability with melody
&gt; fire!
&gt;
&gt; just my humble thoughts,
&gt;
&gt; RB

now you're doing it again: classifying on technical grounds...;-)
H.

Report this message

#26: Re: Stirring things up

Posted on 2005-06-15 16:46:26 by Holger Weber

&quot;bob r&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:SomeoneHere&#64;whatever.com" target="_blank">SomeoneHere&#64;whatever.com</a>&gt; schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:BED59FA3.3D804%<a href="mailto:SomeoneHere&#64;whatever.com..." target="_blank">SomeoneHere&#64;whatever.com...</a>
&gt; in article <a href="mailto:1118833474.630202.277280&#64;g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com" target="_blank">1118833474.630202.277280&#64;g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com</a>, RB at
&gt; <a href="mailto:richardbornman&#64;ozemail.com.au" target="_blank">richardbornman&#64;ozemail.com.au</a> wrote on 6/15/05 7:04 AM:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Hall has an amazing concept, but he lacks fire and technique,
&gt;
&gt; Define &quot;fire&quot;.
&gt;
&gt; --
&gt; Bob Russell


<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullshit" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullshit</a>

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#27: Re: Stirring things up

Posted on 2005-06-15 17:16:37 by pmfan57

I agree with Holger on this one. Jim Hall doesn't lack fire. If the
only record he made was Jim Hall Live! he's be one of the greats. A
genius who happens to play guitar. He lacks BS, as you said.

How are you doing Holger?

Joe

Holger Weber wrote:
&gt; &quot;bob r&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:SomeoneHere&#64;whatever.com" target="_blank">SomeoneHere&#64;whatever.com</a>&gt; schrieb im Newsbeitrag
&gt; news:BED59FA3.3D804%<a href="mailto:SomeoneHere&#64;whatever.com..." target="_blank">SomeoneHere&#64;whatever.com...</a>
&gt; &gt; in article <a href="mailto:1118833474.630202.277280&#64;g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com" target="_blank">1118833474.630202.277280&#64;g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com</a>, RB at
&gt; &gt; <a href="mailto:richardbornman&#64;ozemail.com.au" target="_blank">richardbornman&#64;ozemail.com.au</a> wrote on 6/15/05 7:04 AM:
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; Hall has an amazing concept, but he lacks fire and technique,
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Define &quot;fire&quot;.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; --
&gt; &gt; Bob Russell
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullshit" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullshit</a>

Report this message

#28: Re: Stirring things up

Posted on 2005-06-15 18:13:08 by thom_j

&gt;I wrote:
&gt;&gt; blazing cops yet have great time.
&gt; Must - use - speel checker
Bad Boys...Bad Boys...Watcha gonna do?
alwayz curious tee'.....

Report this message

#29: Re: Stirring things up

Posted on 2005-06-15 18:24:47 by bob r

in article d8pet4$a8$04$<a href="mailto:1&#64;news.t-online.com" target="_blank">1&#64;news.t-online.com</a>, Holger Weber at
<a href="mailto:nospam&#64;nonono.com" target="_blank">nospam&#64;nonono.com</a> wrote on 6/15/05 10:46 AM:

&gt;
&gt; &quot;bob r&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:SomeoneHere&#64;whatever.com" target="_blank">SomeoneHere&#64;whatever.com</a>&gt; schrieb im Newsbeitrag
&gt; news:BED59FA3.3D804%<a href="mailto:SomeoneHere&#64;whatever.com..." target="_blank">SomeoneHere&#64;whatever.com...</a>
&gt;&gt; in article <a href="mailto:1118833474.630202.277280&#64;g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com" target="_blank">1118833474.630202.277280&#64;g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com</a>, RB at
&gt;&gt; <a href="mailto:richardbornman&#64;ozemail.com.au" target="_blank">richardbornman&#64;ozemail.com.au</a> wrote on 6/15/05 7:04 AM:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Hall has an amazing concept, but he lacks fire and technique,
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Define &quot;fire&quot;.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; --
&gt;&gt; Bob Russell
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullshit" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullshit</a>
&gt;
&gt;

LOL!
--
Bob Russell
<a href="http://www.bobrussellguitar.com" target="_blank">http://www.bobrussellguitar.com</a>
<a href="http://www.cdbaby.com/bobrussell" target="_blank">http://www.cdbaby.com/bobrussell</a>

Report this message

#30: Re: Stirring things up

Posted on 2005-06-15 18:37:24 by Hans van Leeuwen

&quot;Tom Walls&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:tw25&#64;cornell.edu" target="_blank">tw25&#64;cornell.edu</a>&gt; schreef in bericht
news:d8p6ru$oic$<a href="mailto:1&#64;ruby.cit.cornell.edu..." target="_blank">1&#64;ruby.cit.cornell.edu...</a>
&gt; In article &lt;<a href="mailto:1118833474.630202.277280&#64;g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com" target="_blank">1118833474.630202.277280&#64;g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com</a>&gt;,
&gt; <a href="mailto:richardbornman&#64;ozemail.com.au" target="_blank">richardbornman&#64;ozemail.com.au</a> says...
&gt; On the other hand, I have often had a
&gt; feeling of exhaustion listening to some our most acclaimed players, as
&gt; though they're trying to put two gallons of water in a one gallon jug.
&gt; Jazz has so many virtuosos that one becomes jaded.
&gt;

Never listen to an artist on CD/DVD/LP longer than one or two pieces at a
time, this is a general rule I always have followed, for ALL types of music
and for ALL kind of artists. That's why I hate live-concerts and art-
exhibitions. It is a wonderful experience to watch a Dali but not 75 Dali's
in a row.
H.

Report this message

#31: Re: Stirring things up

Posted on 2005-06-15 18:53:00 by d.onstenk

That's a very interesting observation Hans.

#####


&quot;Hans van Leeuwen&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:wnbeh&#64;msnbbs.nl" target="_blank">wnbeh&#64;msnbbs.nl</a>&gt; schreef in bericht
news:d115f$42b05927$d52e8aa9$<a href="mailto:13851&#64;news.chello.nl..." target="_blank">13851&#64;news.chello.nl...</a>
&gt;
&gt; &quot;Tom Walls&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:tw25&#64;cornell.edu" target="_blank">tw25&#64;cornell.edu</a>&gt; schreef in bericht
&gt; news:d8p6ru$oic$<a href="mailto:1&#64;ruby.cit.cornell.edu..." target="_blank">1&#64;ruby.cit.cornell.edu...</a>
&gt;&gt; In article &lt;<a href="mailto:1118833474.630202.277280&#64;g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com" target="_blank">1118833474.630202.277280&#64;g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com</a>&gt;,
&gt;&gt; <a href="mailto:richardbornman&#64;ozemail.com.au" target="_blank">richardbornman&#64;ozemail.com.au</a> says...
&gt;&gt; On the other hand, I have often had a
&gt;&gt; feeling of exhaustion listening to some our most acclaimed players, as
&gt;&gt; though they're trying to put two gallons of water in a one gallon jug.
&gt;&gt; Jazz has so many virtuosos that one becomes jaded.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Never listen to an artist on CD/DVD/LP longer than one or two pieces at a
&gt; time, this is a general rule I always have followed, for ALL types of
&gt; music
&gt; and for ALL kind of artists. That's why I hate live-concerts and art-
&gt; exhibitions. It is a wonderful experience to watch a Dali but not 75
&gt; Dali's
&gt; in a row.
&gt; H.
&gt;
&gt;

Report this message

#32: Re: Stirring things up

Posted on 2005-06-15 18:55:56 by pmfan57

get an MP3 player and use the scramble mode. When I can't decide what
to listen to on the train, I use that. It's fun. &quot;Hmm, that sounds
like Carmell Jones; let me check&quot; If you have as big a collection on
the player as I have, sometimes is like a blindfold test.

Joe

Hans van Leeuwen wrote:
&gt; &quot;Tom Walls&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:tw25&#64;cornell.edu" target="_blank">tw25&#64;cornell.edu</a>&gt; schreef in bericht
&gt; news:d8p6ru$oic$<a href="mailto:1&#64;ruby.cit.cornell.edu..." target="_blank">1&#64;ruby.cit.cornell.edu...</a>
&gt; &gt; In article &lt;<a href="mailto:1118833474.630202.277280&#64;g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com" target="_blank">1118833474.630202.277280&#64;g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com</a>&gt;,
&gt; &gt; <a href="mailto:richardbornman&#64;ozemail.com.au" target="_blank">richardbornman&#64;ozemail.com.au</a> says...
&gt; &gt; On the other hand, I have often had a
&gt; &gt; feeling of exhaustion listening to some our most acclaimed players, as
&gt; &gt; though they're trying to put two gallons of water in a one gallon jug.
&gt; &gt; Jazz has so many virtuosos that one becomes jaded.
&gt; &gt;
&gt;
&gt; Never listen to an artist on CD/DVD/LP longer than one or two pieces at a
&gt; time, this is a general rule I always have followed, for ALL types of music
&gt; and for ALL kind of artists. That's why I hate live-concerts and art-
&gt; exhibitions. It is a wonderful experience to watch a Dali but not 75 Dali's
&gt; in a row.
&gt; H.

Report this message

#33: Re: Stirring things up

Posted on 2005-06-15 19:08:14 by Tom Walls

In article &lt;d115f$42b05927$d52e8aa9$<a href="mailto:13851&#64;news.chello.nl" target="_blank">13851&#64;news.chello.nl</a>&gt;,
<a href="mailto:wnbeh&#64;msnbbs.nl" target="_blank">wnbeh&#64;msnbbs.nl</a> says...
&gt;
&gt; &quot;Tom Walls&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:tw25&#64;cornell.edu" target="_blank">tw25&#64;cornell.edu</a>&gt; schreef in bericht
&gt; news:d8p6ru$oic$<a href="mailto:1&#64;ruby.cit.cornell.edu..." target="_blank">1&#64;ruby.cit.cornell.edu...</a>
&gt; &gt; In article &lt;<a href="mailto:1118833474.630202.277280&#64;g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com" target="_blank">1118833474.630202.277280&#64;g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com</a>&gt;,
&gt; &gt; <a href="mailto:richardbornman&#64;ozemail.com.au" target="_blank">richardbornman&#64;ozemail.com.au</a> says...
&gt; &gt; On the other hand, I have often had a
&gt; &gt; feeling of exhaustion listening to some our most acclaimed players, as
&gt; &gt; though they're trying to put two gallons of water in a one gallon jug.
&gt; &gt; Jazz has so many virtuosos that one becomes jaded.
&gt; &gt;
&gt;
&gt; Never listen to an artist on CD/DVD/LP longer than one or two pieces at a
&gt; time, this is a general rule I always have followed, for ALL types of music
&gt; and for ALL kind of artists. That's why I hate live-concerts and art-
&gt; exhibitions. It is a wonderful experience to watch a Dali but not 75 Dali's
&gt; in a row.
&gt; H.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
Good advice!
--
Tom Walls
the guy at the Temple of Zeus

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#34: Re: Stirring things up

Posted on 2005-06-15 20:13:41 by mleggetNOHONKINSPAM

On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 13:08:14 -0400, Tom Walls &lt;<a href="mailto:tw25&#64;cornell.edu" target="_blank">tw25&#64;cornell.edu</a>&gt;
wrote:

&gt;In article &lt;d115f$42b05927$d52e8aa9$<a href="mailto:13851&#64;news.chello.nl" target="_blank">13851&#64;news.chello.nl</a>&gt;,
&gt;<a href="mailto:wnbeh&#64;msnbbs.nl" target="_blank">wnbeh&#64;msnbbs.nl</a> says...
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; &quot;Tom Walls&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:tw25&#64;cornell.edu" target="_blank">tw25&#64;cornell.edu</a>&gt; schreef in bericht
&gt;&gt; news:d8p6ru$oic$<a href="mailto:1&#64;ruby.cit.cornell.edu..." target="_blank">1&#64;ruby.cit.cornell.edu...</a>
&gt;&gt; &gt; In article &lt;<a href="mailto:1118833474.630202.277280&#64;g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com" target="_blank">1118833474.630202.277280&#64;g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com</a>&gt;,
&gt;&gt; &gt; <a href="mailto:richardbornman&#64;ozemail.com.au" target="_blank">richardbornman&#64;ozemail.com.au</a> says...
&gt;&gt; &gt; On the other hand, I have often had a
&gt;&gt; &gt; feeling of exhaustion listening to some our most acclaimed players, as
&gt;&gt; &gt; though they're trying to put two gallons of water in a one gallon jug.
&gt;&gt; &gt; Jazz has so many virtuosos that one becomes jaded.
&gt;&gt; &gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Never listen to an artist on CD/DVD/LP longer than one or two pieces at a
&gt;&gt; time, this is a general rule I always have followed, for ALL types of music
&gt;&gt; and for ALL kind of artists. That's why I hate live-concerts and art-
&gt;&gt; exhibitions. It is a wonderful experience to watch a Dali but not 75 Dali's
&gt;&gt; in a row.
&gt;&gt; H.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;Good advice!

LPs were good for that, as listening to one side, which would be 3
pieces, say, on a jazz album, was enough. Then the next LP'd fall onto
the table. CDs, though, just go on and on and on - and, it they're a
reissue, they have extraneous extra tracks which, on listening, you
understand why they weren't issued inthe first place.

------------------------------------------------------------ --
&quot;If the gods wanted us to twist our spines about
while we played guitar, they would have given us
rubber bands rather than vertebrae. And then where
would humanity be? Propelling cornflakes box
submarines in some alien bathtub in an ungodly
time dimension where the music of the spheres
consisted of Kenny G.&quot;
Spinoza
------------------------------------------------------------ --

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#35: Re: Stirring things up

Posted on 2005-06-16 01:01:17 by jurupari

I heard him play
Clarinet Polka one time.

wow, I play that one once in awhile too, but I don't know the bridge,
or even if there is one. But you gotta play it in harmony to be cool,
you betcha dupa.

Clif

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#36: Re: Stirring things up

Posted on 2005-06-16 01:11:53 by jurupari

Personally I don't give a rat's ass who is the best because the
question
itself is not valid.

I don't think so either. Like, who's the best doctor, dentist, lawyer,
priest or grocery clerk and what are the criteria for evaluation there?


Also, it would be pretty naive to expect that one single person in
history had every musical gift that humans could have in higher
concentration than anyone else in the remainder of humanity.

That's not reality, it's fandom - in the world of the fanatic, of
course it's all possible because it's all subjective.

I wonder if poets sit around and say stuff like, &quot;That Vachel Lindsay,
man was he FAST!&quot;.

Clif

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#37: Re: Stirring things up

Posted on 2005-06-16 01:21:36 by jurupari

Dick,if you believe there are no better or worse players at a certain
level, which level would this be? at which point can you switch off the

discrimination factor?

I'd like to comment on that too.

The same place you do it for English speakers, I guess. If they make
sense to you on a subject, they're communicating.

It seems to me that everyone who uses the language brings his thoughts
to it and uses it his way with his timing, inflection, syntax and
content.

Sir Winston didn't communicate the same way as Fred G. Sanford and
neither of them had the same content or delivery as Steven Hawking or
Robin Williams.

I don't want everybody to speak like Sir Winston, or Jesse Jackson, or
Tonto. Vive les differances!

Clif

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#38: Re: Stirring things up

Posted on 2005-06-16 02:16:56 by tombrown

I heard Tonto totally cut Stephen Hawking on PBS that one time.

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#39: Re: Stirring things up

Posted on 2005-06-16 03:15:52 by El Kabong

&gt;
&gt;I wonder if poets sit around and say stuff like, &quot;That Vachel Lindsay,
&gt;man was he FAST!&quot;.
&gt;
&gt;Clif

They probably say &quot;He sure drinks fast!&quot;
+

Johnny Asia, Hippie Guitarist
<a href="http://johnnyasia.info" target="_blank">http://johnnyasia.info</a>

<a href="http://www.angelfire.com/art2/painterny/johnny/ja2.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.angelfire.com/art2/painterny/johnny/ja2.jpg</a>


&quot;I say play your own way. Don't play what the public wants. You play what
you want and let the public pick up on what you're doing even if it does take
them fifteen, twenty years.&quot; - Thelonious Monk

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#40: Re: Stirring things up

Posted on 2005-06-16 03:51:03 by pmfan57

Poets can be half fast.

Johnny Asia wrote:
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;I wonder if poets sit around and say stuff like, &quot;That Vachel Lindsay,
&gt; &gt;man was he FAST!&quot;.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;Clif
&gt;
&gt; They probably say &quot;He sure drinks fast!&quot;
&gt; +
&gt;
&gt; Johnny Asia, Hippie Guitarist
&gt; <a href="http://johnnyasia.info" target="_blank">http://johnnyasia.info</a>
&gt;
&gt; <a href="http://www.angelfire.com/art2/painterny/johnny/ja2.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.angelfire.com/art2/painterny/johnny/ja2.jpg</a>
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; &quot;I say play your own way. Don't play what the public wants. You play what
&gt; you want and let the public pick up on what you're doing even if it does take
&gt; them fifteen, twenty years.&quot; - Thelonious Monk

Report this message

#41: Re: Stirring things up

Posted on 2005-06-16 07:59:05 by acmost

&gt;
&gt; &quot;RB&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:richardbornman&#64;ozemail.com.au" target="_blank">richardbornman&#64;ozemail.com.au</a>&gt; schreef in bericht
&gt; news:<a href="mailto:1118833474.630202.277280&#64;g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com..." target="_blank">1118833474.630202.277280&#64;g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...</a>
&gt; &gt; Hans,
&gt; &gt; Nice to have your view!
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; My view differs from yours in a few ways. I find your classification
&gt; &gt; too coarse. Sure each player is a legend, but they all have strengths
&gt; &gt; and weaknesses.
&gt; &gt; Farlow had weak time, but good harmonic skills and plenty of fire.In
&gt; &gt; contrast Wes had good time and his amazing originality. Barney had an
&gt; &gt; exploratory approach, but his melodic concept was old fashioned. Hall
&gt; &gt; has an amazing concept, but he lacks fire and technique, Martino lacks
&gt; &gt; rhythmic variety. Metheny is a genius who seems to lack very little...
&gt; &gt; Personally i like a player to have all his skills developed in balance.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; ie:
&gt; &gt; good time (which means good technique to me)


The two I guess go hand in hand but I'm assuming when you mean &quot;chops&quot; when
you say technique....as in technical prowess. How about &quot;good time&quot; for a
drummer? Definitely some drummers who aren't single stroke monsters with
blazing cops yet have great time.

Report this message

#42: Re: Stirring things up

Posted on 2005-06-16 08:00:06 by acmost

I wrote:

&quot;a.m.&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:acmost&#64;bellsouth.not" target="_blank">acmost&#64;bellsouth.not</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:4dYre.14550$<a href="mailto:zm.12968&#64;bignews4.bellsouth.net..." target="_blank">zm.12968&#64;bignews4.bellsouth.net...</a>
&gt;
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; &quot;RB&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:richardbornman&#64;ozemail.com.au" target="_blank">richardbornman&#64;ozemail.com.au</a>&gt; schreef in bericht
&gt; &gt; news:<a href="mailto:1118833474.630202.277280&#64;g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com..." target="_blank">1118833474.630202.277280&#64;g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...</a>
&gt; &gt; &gt; Hans,
&gt; &gt; &gt; Nice to have your view!
&gt; &gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; &gt; My view differs from yours in a few ways. I find your classification
&gt; &gt; &gt; too coarse. Sure each player is a legend, but they all have strengths
&gt; &gt; &gt; and weaknesses.
&gt; &gt; &gt; Farlow had weak time, but good harmonic skills and plenty of fire.In
&gt; &gt; &gt; contrast Wes had good time and his amazing originality. Barney had an
&gt; &gt; &gt; exploratory approach, but his melodic concept was old fashioned. Hall
&gt; &gt; &gt; has an amazing concept, but he lacks fire and technique, Martino lacks
&gt; &gt; &gt; rhythmic variety. Metheny is a genius who seems to lack very little...
&gt; &gt; &gt; Personally i like a player to have all his skills developed in
balance.
&gt; &gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; &gt; ie:
&gt; &gt; &gt; good time (which means good technique to me)
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; The two I guess go hand in hand but I'm assuming when you mean &quot;chops&quot;
when
&gt; you say technique....as in technical prowess. How about &quot;good time&quot; for a
&gt; drummer? Definitely some drummers who aren't single stroke monsters with
&gt; blazing cops yet have great time.

Must - use - speel checker

Report this message

#43: Re: Stirring things up

Posted on 2005-06-16 08:41:34 by acmost

&quot;Hans van Leeuwen&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:wnbeh&#64;msnbbs.nl" target="_blank">wnbeh&#64;msnbbs.nl</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:d115f$42b05927$d52e8aa9$<a href="mailto:13851&#64;news.chello.nl..." target="_blank">13851&#64;news.chello.nl...</a>
&gt;
&gt; &quot;Tom Walls&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:tw25&#64;cornell.edu" target="_blank">tw25&#64;cornell.edu</a>&gt; schreef in bericht
&gt; news:d8p6ru$oic$<a href="mailto:1&#64;ruby.cit.cornell.edu..." target="_blank">1&#64;ruby.cit.cornell.edu...</a>
&gt; &gt; In article &lt;<a href="mailto:1118833474.630202.277280&#64;g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com" target="_blank">1118833474.630202.277280&#64;g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com</a>&gt;,
&gt; &gt; <a href="mailto:richardbornman&#64;ozemail.com.au" target="_blank">richardbornman&#64;ozemail.com.au</a> says...
&gt; &gt; On the other hand, I have often had a
&gt; &gt; feeling of exhaustion listening to some our most acclaimed players, as
&gt; &gt; though they're trying to put two gallons of water in a one gallon jug.
&gt; &gt; Jazz has so many virtuosos that one becomes jaded.
&gt; &gt;
&gt;
&gt; Never listen to an artist on CD/DVD/LP longer than one or two pieces at a
&gt; time, this is a general rule I always have followed, for ALL types of
music
&gt; and for ALL kind of artists. That's why I hate live-concerts and art-
&gt; exhibitions. It is a wonderful experience to watch a Dali but not 75
Dali's
&gt; in a row.
&gt; H.


That's interesting. I used to buy LPs to try to cop something &amp; I'd think
well if I just got one thing off of it then that would be worth it ....but I
think that's the true mark of whether you like somebody's art or not -
whether you can listen to the whole album through. It's tough to do
sometimes, even with your favor-ites.

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#44: Re: Stirring things up

Posted on 2005-06-16 16:27:12 by David Raleigh Arnold

On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 16:01:17 -0700, <a href="mailto:jurupari&#64;aol.com" target="_blank">jurupari&#64;aol.com</a> wrote:

&gt; I heard him play
&gt; Clarinet Polka one time.
&gt;
&gt; wow, I play that one once in awhile too, but I don't know the bridge,

It has a trio. 3 part song form. It's a real good practice piece
for your fiddle tunes list, like College/Sailors Hornpipe.

Is Clarinet Polka public domain? Yes:

<a href="http://www.sheetmusicplus.com/store/smp_inside.html?cart=33279060962665111&amp;item=3007593&amp;page=01" target="_blank"> http://www.sheetmusicplus.com/store/smp_inside.html?cart=332 79060962665111&amp;item=3007593&amp;page=01</a>
You can do a screen capture and get it.

GC played &quot;Columbus Georgia&quot; too, using Mickey Baker type jazz
chords in a very fast swing style, and did a solo on it that was old
fashioned or pre-bop if you like but unquestionably jazz. daveA

--
The only technical exercises for all guitarists worth a lifetime
of practice: &quot;Dynamic Guitar Technique&quot;. Nothing else is close.
Free download: <a href="http://www.openguitar.com/instruction.html" target="_blank">http://www.openguitar.com/instruction.html</a>
daveA David Raleigh Arnold dra..at..openguitar.com

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#45: Re: Stirring things up

Posted on 2005-06-17 01:20:22 by Richard Bornman

I missed this the other day...

Holger,
I could play tit for tat and say something inane
about &quot;usenet tourette syndrome&quot;,
but instead i will offer you the following:

YAWN

Report this message

#46: Re: Stirring things up

Posted on 2005-06-17 07:01:07 by jurupari

I heard Tonto totally cut Stephen Hawking on PBS that one time.

Well, he was a better break dancer....

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#47: Re: Stirring things up

Posted on 2005-06-17 08:22:53 by Greger Hoel

On 15 Jun 2005 17:16:56 -0700, &quot;<a href="mailto:tombrown&#64;jhu.edu" target="_blank">tombrown&#64;jhu.edu</a>&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:tombrown&#64;jhu.edu" target="_blank">tombrown&#64;jhu.edu</a>&gt;
wrote:

&gt;I heard Tonto totally cut Stephen Hawking on PBS that one time.

Y'all seen the Far Side bit where a decrepid old Lone Ranger sits,
looking up the word &quot;Kemosabe&quot; in an Apache dictionary?
&quot;Kemosabe - an Apache expression for a horse's rear end.&quot;
--
_______________________________________________
Always cross a vampire, never moon a werewolf

To reach me, swap spammers get bent with softhome
------------------------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------

Report this message

#48: Re: Stirring things up

Posted on 2005-06-17 11:53:26 by thom_j

&quot;Greger Hoel&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:gregerh&#64;spammersgetbent.net" target="_blank">gregerh&#64;spammersgetbent.net</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:<a href="mailto:0fq4b1t6e53kgdnbor9ro3b5t2d5o62ag3&#64;4ax.com..." target="_blank">0fq4b1t6e53kgdnbor9ro3b5t2d5o62ag3&#64;4ax.com...</a>
&gt; On 15 Jun 2005 17:16:56 -0700, &quot;<a href="mailto:tombrown&#64;jhu.edu" target="_blank">tombrown&#64;jhu.edu</a>&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:tombrown&#64;jhu.edu" target="_blank">tombrown&#64;jhu.edu</a>&gt;
&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;I heard Tonto totally cut Stephen Hawking on PBS that one time.
&gt;
&gt; Y'all seen the Far Side bit where a decrepid old Lone Ranger sits,
&gt; looking up the word &quot;Kemosabe&quot; in an Apache dictionary?
&gt; &quot;Kemosabe - an Apache expression for a horse's rear end.&quot;
No... &quot;Kemosabe&quot; means 'yer a dead white man'.....
a plethora of useless knowledge tee'..
&gt; --
&gt; _______________________________________________
&gt; Always cross a vampire, never moon a werewolf
&gt;
&gt; To reach me, swap spammers get bent with softhome
&gt; ------------------------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------

Report this message

#49: Re: Stirring things up

Posted on 2005-06-17 16:57:28 by Formerly Sideways

RB wrote:
Farlow had weak time, but good harmonic skills and plenty of fire.In
&gt; contrast Wes had good time and his amazing originality. Barney had an
&gt; exploratory approach, but his melodic concept was old fashioned. Hall
&gt; has an amazing concept, but he lacks fire and technique, Martino lacks
&gt; rhythmic variety.

Jesus H. Christ, Richard, just when you appear to have reconciled with
most posters, including Bruno, you start popping off with this
bullshit.

You can insist can that there are objective standards supporting your
observations all you want, but it's not only just your opinion, but a
condescending and disrespectful one at that.

Could you blame Bruno or another name player if they ripped you
(another) new one for making a statement like &quot;Hall lacks fire,&quot; or
better yet, &quot;Martino lacks rhythmic variety?&quot; You claim to enjoy the
&quot;flamefests,&quot; but I distinctly remember your plaintive whining after
the last implosion.

I guess I should put you in the dustbin with Greg D., but at least you
are talking about jazz guitar, so, like Joe Finn, I'll continue to read
your posts with bemused detachment until you say something so patently
boneheaded that I can't resist.

Like Tom said, &quot;cut&quot; is a term used by guitarists with small penises
who can't distinguish between an athletic competition and an artistic
endeavor.

Report this message

#50: Re: Stirring things up

Posted on 2005-06-17 17:27:29 by El Kabong

On 17 Jun 2005 07:57:28 -0700, &quot;Formerly Sideways&quot;
&lt;<a href="mailto:twotone60&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">twotone60&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:


&gt;
&gt;Could you blame Bruno or another name player if they ripped you
&gt;(another) new one for making a statement like &quot;Hall lacks fire,&quot;

Sonny Rollins said Hall is &quot;the best guitarist in jazz&quot;

But then again, the opinions of jazz greats aren't taken seriously
by some people. Like, they can sure play, but they can't tell if
another musician is good or not.

Hell, if a lot of the jazz legends listened to the advice of people
here , they would never had recorded all those records with
such lame players ;)
+

Johnny Asia, Hippie Guitarist
<a href="http://johnnyasia.info" target="_blank">http://johnnyasia.info</a>

<a href="http://www.angelfire.com/art2/painterny/johnny/ja2.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.angelfire.com/art2/painterny/johnny/ja2.jpg</a>


&quot;I say play your own way. Don't play what the public wants. You play what
you want and let the public pick up on what you're doing even if it does take
them fifteen, twenty years.&quot; - Thelonious Monk

Report this message

#51: Re: Stirring things up

Posted on 2005-06-17 18:02:08 by Mark Kleinhaut

Funny how this place never changes:) The noise level is still pretty
low, but so is the signal. I wish there were something more
interesting going on to talk about. Obviously I'm not contributing
much of anything either, so I can't complain, yet I remember when I
used to really look forward to logging on and yapping about guitar
stuff with the guys. It's not really like anything has changed, has
it? So, I guess it's me...what can I say, the thrill is gone...

www.markkleinhaut.com

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#52: Re: Stirring things up

Posted on 2005-06-17 18:14:28 by bob r

in article <a href="mailto:2jq5b11faqf95fleu1auode9ai3qd1fc5v&#64;4ax.com" target="_blank">2jq5b11faqf95fleu1auode9ai3qd1fc5v&#64;4ax.com</a>, Johnny Asia at
poki_pongo at yahoo.com wrote on 6/17/05 11:27 AM:

&gt; Hell, if a lot of the jazz legends listened to the advice of people
&gt; here , they would never had recorded all those records with
&gt; such lame players ;)

LOL! I love it!
--
Bob Russell
<a href="http://www.bobrussellguitar.com" target="_blank">http://www.bobrussellguitar.com</a>
<a href="http://www.cdbaby.com/bobrussell" target="_blank">http://www.cdbaby.com/bobrussell</a>

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#53: Re: Stirring things up

Posted on 2005-06-17 19:28:04 by Tom Walls

In article &lt;<a href="mailto:2jq5b11faqf95fleu1auode9ai3qd1fc5v&#64;4ax.com" target="_blank">2jq5b11faqf95fleu1auode9ai3qd1fc5v&#64;4ax.com</a>&gt;, Johnny Asia
&lt;poki_pongo at yahoo.com&gt; says...
&gt; On 17 Jun 2005 07:57:28 -0700, &quot;Formerly Sideways&quot;
&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:twotone60&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">twotone60&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;Could you blame Bruno or another name player if they ripped you
&gt; &gt;(another) new one for making a statement like &quot;Hall lacks fire,&quot;
&gt;
&gt; Sonny Rollins said Hall is &quot;the best guitarist in jazz&quot;
&gt;
&gt; But then again, the opinions of jazz greats aren't taken seriously
&gt; by some people. Like, they can sure play, but they can't tell if
&gt; another musician is good or not.
&gt;

Richard wasn't saying these people aren't good; he was saying that even
the greats have weak points. I know, I know -- what a thing to dwell on.
Everybody needs a hobby!
--
Tom Walls
the guy at the Temple of Zeus

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#54: Re: Stirring things up

Posted on 2005-06-17 19:32:44 by Tom Walls

In article &lt;<a href="mailto:1119020996.640145.90190&#64;o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com" target="_blank">1119020996.640145.90190&#64;o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com</a>&gt;,
<a href="mailto:markkleinhaut&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">markkleinhaut&#64;hotmail.com</a> says...
&gt; Funny how this place never changes:) The noise level is still pretty
&gt; low, but so is the signal. I wish there were something more
&gt; interesting going on to talk about. Obviously I'm not contributing
&gt; much of anything either, so I can't complain, yet I remember when I
&gt; used to really look forward to logging on and yapping about guitar
&gt; stuff with the guys. It's not really like anything has changed, has
&gt; it? So, I guess it's me...what can I say, the thrill is gone...
&gt;
&gt; www.markkleinhaut.com
&gt;
&gt;
Initially it's a real rush to be in the company of others who might
conceivably care about your trivial jazz guitar concerns. Sadly the
thrill diminishes, yet you still need your daily fix. It's like heroin.
--
Tom Walls
the guy at the Temple of Zeus

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#55: Re: Stirring things up

Posted on 2005-06-18 07:37:20 by Eric G

On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 13:32:44 -0400, Tom Walls &lt;<a href="mailto:tw25&#64;cornell.edu" target="_blank">tw25&#64;cornell.edu</a>&gt;
wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;Initially it's a real rush to be in the company of others who might
&gt;conceivably care about your trivial jazz guitar concerns. Sadly the
&gt;thrill diminishes, yet you still need your daily fix. It's like heroin.


I know exactly what you mean Tom.

If everyone here is like myself... there is nothing I feel as
passionate/obssessed about as jazz guitar.

It's great to be in the company of others who can relate to your
obssession.

Strangely enough I know exactly what Richard is talking about about
and am not offended in the least by it. Nor am I offended when he
praises Benson to the extent that he does.

But my personality is different. Were I to go on and on about a
player's supreme ability, that player would be Wes. But it's just not
in me to go on and on. :)

Eric (the occasional poster)

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#56: Re: Stirring things up

Posted on 2005-06-18 17:05:34 by gtrmon

&quot;love is like a dying ember...
only memories remain
through the ages I'll remember
Blue Eyes Crying In The Rain&quot;

Report this message

#57: Re: Stirring things up

Posted on 2005-06-20 07:06:37 by Joe Finn

&quot;RB&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:richardbornman&#64;ozemail.com.au" target="_blank">richardbornman&#64;ozemail.com.au</a>&gt; wrote

&gt; Sure each player is a legend, but they all have strengths
&gt; and weaknesses.

Now that I finally have a night off I can address this foolishness. It's
irresistible.

&gt; [Tal] Farlow had weak time,
&gt; [Barney Kessell's] ...... melodic concept was old fashioned
&gt; [Jim] Hall ....... lacks fire and technique
&gt; [Pat] Martino lacks rhythmic variety.

This is some of the most ridiculous nonsense I've ever seen. In a lifetime
music these remarks stand out not just as some of the most ill advised,
uninformed, silliness that I have ever heard of; but as the most clueless
imbecility that I can even imagine. I denounce these farcical judgments out
of hand.


&gt; just my humble thoughts,
&gt;
&gt; RB

You don't have a humble bone in your body so let's not kid ourselves.

You, Richard Bornman, are the one who identified Brian May as &quot;amazingly
melodic/memorable&quot; and Gino Vanelli as &quot;incredible&quot; and &quot;stellar&quot;. Anybody
can look this stuff up too because the google archieve will be there until
hell freezes over. If Vanelli and May are what floats your boat, go for it.
I would by all means be hugely gratified if you were to continue to enjoy
thier music to the fullest. Stick to what you know, though. You couldn't
hold Martino's case. Or Hall's cable either. Rock on, dood.
..........joe




--
Visit me on the web www.joefinn.net

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#58: Re: Stirring things up

Posted on 2005-06-20 17:09:08 by Paul Sanwald

I think brian may is really melodic. there are lots of rock players
that are really melodic. so what? also, richard swings his ass off,
there's lots of stuff in the archives of you praising his playing a
lot.

--paul

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#59: Re: Stirring things up

Posted on 2005-06-20 17:39:35 by d.onstenk

I stopped admiring Brian May when I heard that famous 1986 live concert. He
sounded like the ordinary heavy rock John Doe. Though I have never liked
Queen from day 1 (too soft for me I was into heavier rock) I used to admire
his playing. Unfortunately live he cannot pull it off and he just sounds
like Joe average rock dude.

He sounds good in the studio though if you like that kind of stuff. Live
heck no.

#####


&quot;paul&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:pcsanwald&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">pcsanwald&#64;gmail.com</a>&gt; schreef in bericht
news:<a href="mailto:1119280148.722647.102920&#64;g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com..." target="_blank">1119280148.722647.102920&#64;g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...</a>
&gt;I think brian may is really melodic. there are lots of rock players
&gt; that are really melodic. so what? also, richard swings his ass off,
&gt; there's lots of stuff in the archives of you praising his playing a
&gt; lot.
&gt;
&gt; --paul
&gt;

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#60: Re: Stirring things up

Posted on 2005-06-20 17:55:26 by Paul Sanwald

I don't like queen at all and haven't heard anything more than what the
average person hears at the dentist office or in the gym. still, I can
hum several of his solos just from that. to me, that means he's a
pretty melodic dude. maybe not in the same class as david gilmour, but
still pretty melodic :).

--paul

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#61: Re: Stirring things up

Posted on 2005-06-20 18:01:43 by mleggetNOHONKINSPAM

On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 17:39:35 +0200, &quot;Five Sharp&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:d.onstenk&#64;chello.nl" target="_blank">d.onstenk&#64;chello.nl</a>&gt;
wrote:

&gt;I stopped admiring Brian May when I heard that famous 1986 live concert. He
&gt;sounded like the ordinary heavy rock John Doe. Though I have never liked
&gt;Queen from day 1 (too soft for me I was into heavier rock) I used to admire
&gt;his playing. Unfortunately live he cannot pull it off and he just sounds
&gt;like Joe average rock dude.
&gt;
&gt;He sounds good in the studio though if you like that kind of stuff. Live
&gt;heck no.

Give me six months to record 1/2 a dozen choruses with full use of the
various effects including overdubs and multi tracking that May used
plus a good producer and I'll put out something pretty and self
indulgent, too. In fact, I've already recorded something pretty and
self indulgent - it's on my SoundClick site - and I didn't need 6
months to do it. But one man, one guitar, one amp, one take. That's
the critical measure that interests me. Stylistically, I could care
less, but I want to listen to music, not clever production. &quot;Let my
children have music! Let them hear live music. Not noise. My children!
You do what you want with your own!&quot; Mingus was hip.



&gt;
&gt;#####
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&quot;paul&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:pcsanwald&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">pcsanwald&#64;gmail.com</a>&gt; schreef in bericht
&gt;news:<a href="mailto:1119280148.722647.102920&#64;g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com..." target="_blank">1119280148.722647.102920&#64;g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...</a>
&gt;&gt;I think brian may is really melodic. there are lots of rock players
&gt;&gt; that are really melodic. so what? also, richard swings his ass off,
&gt;&gt; there's lots of stuff in the archives of you praising his playing a
&gt;&gt; lot.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; --paul
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt;


------------------------------------------------------------ --
&quot;If the gods wanted us to twist our spines about
while we played guitar, they would have given us
rubber bands rather than vertebrae. And then where
would humanity be? Propelling cornflakes box
submarines in some alien bathtub in an ungodly
time dimension where the music of the spheres
consisted of Kenny G.&quot;
Spinoza
------------------------------------------------------------ --

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#62: Re: Stirring things up

Posted on 2005-06-20 18:02:32 by pmfan57

Not only is Brian May very melodic, I agree with Paul that many of the
most melodic guitar players are rock players.

I also agree that Richard is a badass guitar player, especially having
viewed it up close. And did I mention Kangaroo-style Kung Foo?

paul wrote:
&gt; I think brian may is really melodic. there are lots of rock players
&gt; that are really melodic. so what? also, richard swings his ass off,
&gt; there's lots of stuff in the archives of you praising his playing a
&gt; lot.
&gt;
&gt; --paul

Report this message

#63: Re: Stirring things up

Posted on 2005-06-20 18:12:00 by d.onstenk

The whole problem with Queen is that it was a studio band that sounded very
disappointing live, including May. Their music was virtual music
(artificially created in the studio with umpieth takes for all parts).

But that goes for much rock and pop music. In the 1970s you had bands that
got 6 months' of studio time to record ONE album.

#####






&quot;Max Leggett&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:mleggetNOHONKINSPAM&#64;sprint.ca" target="_blank">mleggetNOHONKINSPAM&#64;sprint.ca</a>&gt; schreef in bericht
news:<a href="mailto:42b6e660.516557931&#64;News.sprint.ca..." target="_blank">42b6e660.516557931&#64;News.sprint.ca...</a>
&gt; On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 17:39:35 +0200, &quot;Five Sharp&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:d.onstenk&#64;chello.nl" target="_blank">d.onstenk&#64;chello.nl</a>&gt;
&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;I stopped admiring Brian May when I heard that famous 1986 live concert.
&gt;&gt;He
&gt;&gt;sounded like the ordinary heavy rock John Doe. Though I have never liked
&gt;&gt;Queen from day 1 (too soft for me I was into heavier rock) I used to
&gt;&gt;admire
&gt;&gt;his playing. Unfortunately live he cannot pull it off and he just sounds
&gt;&gt;like Joe average rock dude.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;He sounds good in the studio though if you like that kind of stuff. Live
&gt;&gt;heck no.
&gt;
&gt; Give me six months to record 1/2 a dozen choruses with full use of the
&gt; various effects including overdubs and multi tracking that May used
&gt; plus a good producer and I'll put out something pretty and self
&gt; indulgent, too. In fact, I've already recorded something pretty and
&gt; self indulgent - it's on my SoundClick site - and I didn't need 6
&gt; months to do it. But one man, one guitar, one amp, one take. That's
&gt; the critical measure that interests me. Stylistically, I could care
&gt; less, but I want to listen to music, not clever production. &quot;Let my
&gt; children have music! Let them hear live music. Not noise. My children!
&gt; You do what you want with your own!&quot; Mingus was hip.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;#####
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&quot;paul&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:pcsanwald&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">pcsanwald&#64;gmail.com</a>&gt; schreef in bericht
&gt;&gt;news:<a href="mailto:1119280148.722647.102920&#64;g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com..." target="_blank">1119280148.722647.102920&#64;g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...</a>
&gt;&gt;&gt;I think brian may is really melodic. there are lots of rock players
&gt;&gt;&gt; that are really melodic. so what? also, richard swings his ass off,
&gt;&gt;&gt; there's lots of stuff in the archives of you praising his playing a
&gt;&gt;&gt; lot.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; --paul
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; ------------------------------------------------------------ --
&gt; &quot;If the gods wanted us to twist our spines about
&gt; while we played guitar, they would have given us
&gt; rubber bands rather than vertebrae. And then where
&gt; would humanity be? Propelling cornflakes box
&gt; submarines in some alien bathtub in an ungodly
&gt; time dimension where the music of the spheres
&gt; consisted of Kenny G.&quot;
&gt; Spinoza
&gt; ------------------------------------------------------------ --

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#64: Re: Stirring things up

Posted on 2005-06-20 18:22:00 by mleggetNOHONKINSPAM

On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 18:12:00 +0200, &quot;Five Sharp&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:d.onstenk&#64;chello.nl" target="_blank">d.onstenk&#64;chello.nl</a>&gt;
wrote:

&gt;The whole problem with Queen is that it was a studio band that sounded very
&gt;disappointing live, including May. Their music was virtual music
&gt;(artificially created in the studio with umpieth takes for all parts).
&gt;
&gt;But that goes for much rock and pop music. In the 1970s you had bands that
&gt;got 6 months' of studio time to record ONE album.

And that's cool, too, but people who are fans of that sort of glossy
production shouldn't be dissing people who do one take with no effects
or post production because it lacks the same surface gloss.




&gt;
&gt;#####
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&quot;Max Leggett&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:mleggetNOHONKINSPAM&#64;sprint.ca" target="_blank">mleggetNOHONKINSPAM&#64;sprint.ca</a>&gt; schreef in bericht
&gt;news:<a href="mailto:42b6e660.516557931&#64;News.sprint.ca..." target="_blank">42b6e660.516557931&#64;News.sprint.ca...</a>
&gt;&gt; On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 17:39:35 +0200, &quot;Five Sharp&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:d.onstenk&#64;chello.nl" target="_blank">d.onstenk&#64;chello.nl</a>&gt;
&gt;&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;I stopped admiring Brian May when I heard that famous 1986 live concert.
&gt;&gt;&gt;He
&gt;&gt;&gt;sounded like the ordinary heavy rock John Doe. Though I have never liked
&gt;&gt;&gt;Queen from day 1 (too soft for me I was into heavier rock) I used to
&gt;&gt;&gt;admire
&gt;&gt;&gt;his playing. Unfortunately live he cannot pull it off and he just sounds
&gt;&gt;&gt;like Joe average rock dude.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;He sounds good in the studio though if you like that kind of stuff. Live
&gt;&gt;&gt;heck no.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Give me six months to record 1/2 a dozen choruses with full use of the
&gt;&gt; various effects including overdubs and multi tracking that May used
&gt;&gt; plus a good producer and I'll put out something pretty and self
&gt;&gt; indulgent, too. In fact, I've already recorded something pretty and
&gt;&gt; self indulgent - it's on my SoundClick site - and I didn't need 6
&gt;&gt; months to do it. But one man, one guitar, one amp, one take. That's
&gt;&gt; the critical measure that interests me. Stylistically, I could care
&gt;&gt; less, but I want to listen to music, not clever production. &quot;Let my
&gt;&gt; children have music! Let them hear live music. Not noise. My children!
&gt;&gt; You do what you want with your own!&quot; Mingus was hip.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;#####
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&quot;paul&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:pcsanwald&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">pcsanwald&#64;gmail.com</a>&gt; schreef in bericht
&gt;&gt;&gt;news:<a href="mailto:1119280148.722647.102920&#64;g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com..." target="_blank">1119280148.722647.102920&#64;g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...</a>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;I think brian may is really melodic. there are lots of rock players
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; that are really melodic. so what? also, richard swings his ass off,
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; there's lots of stuff in the archives of you praising his playing a
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; lot.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; --paul
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; ------------------------------------------------------------ --
&gt;&gt; &quot;If the gods wanted us to twist our spines about
&gt;&gt; while we played guitar, they would have given us
&gt;&gt; rubber bands rather than vertebrae. And then where
&gt;&gt; would humanity be? Propelling cornflakes box
&gt;&gt; submarines in some alien bathtub in an ungodly
&gt;&gt; time dimension where the music of the spheres
&gt;&gt; consisted of Kenny G.&quot;
&gt;&gt; Spinoza
&gt;&gt; ------------------------------------------------------------ --
&gt;
&gt;


------------------------------------------------------------ --
&quot;If the gods wanted us to twist our spines about
while we played guitar, they would have given us
rubber bands rather than vertebrae. And then where
would humanity be? Propelling cornflakes box
submarines in some alien bathtub in an ungodly
time dimension where the music of the spheres
consisted of Kenny G.&quot;
Spinoza
------------------------------------------------------------ --

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#65: Re: Stirring things up

Posted on 2005-06-20 19:07:34 by Tom Walls

In article &lt;<a href="mailto:1119282295.688557.102110&#64;o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com" target="_blank">1119282295.688557.102110&#64;o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com</a>&gt;,
<a href="mailto:jwragusa&#64;aol.com" target="_blank">jwragusa&#64;aol.com</a> says...
&gt; Not only is Brian May very melodic, I agree with Paul that many of the
&gt; most melodic guitar players are rock players.
&gt;
&gt; I also agree that Richard is a badass guitar player, especially having
&gt; viewed it up close. And did I mention Kangaroo-style Kung Foo?
&gt;

Yes, you did! I also don't like Queen(well, I liked them more than
Zepplin), but think Brian May was melodic. Now what were we talking
about? Oh yes, Finn is trashing Richard and so he's throwing every
nasty thing he can think of at him including his ultimate bon mot &quot;Rock
on, dood!&quot; Pay no attention, gentlemen. Nothing to see here.

&gt; paul wrote:
&gt; &gt; I think brian may is really melodic. there are lots of rock players
&gt; &gt; that are really melodic. so what? also, richard swings his ass off,
&gt; &gt; there's lots of stuff in the archives of you praising his playing a
&gt; &gt; lot.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; --paul
&gt;
&gt;

--
Tom Walls
the guy at the Temple of Zeus

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#66: Re: Stirring things up

Posted on 2005-06-20 20:24:17 by El Kabong

On 20 Jun 2005 09:02:32 -0700, &quot;pmfan57&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:jwragusa&#64;aol.com" target="_blank">jwragusa&#64;aol.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;I also agree that Richard is a badass guitar player, &gt;&gt;

AHA! There's the problem!

The solution...Richard should record a CD, get his music
out there, get the recognition he deserves, and then I'll bet
he won't be so hyper-critical about the playing of other players
who have successfully carved out a niche for themselves.

It's worth a try!


+

Johnny Asia, Hippie Guitarist
<a href="http://johnnyasia.info" target="_blank">http://johnnyasia.info</a>

<a href="http://www.angelfire.com/art2/painterny/johnny/ja2.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.angelfire.com/art2/painterny/johnny/ja2.jpg</a>


&quot;I say play your own way. Don't play what the public wants. You play what
you want and let the public pick up on what you're doing even if it does take
them fifteen, twenty years.&quot; - Thelonious Monk

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#67: Re: Stirring things up

Posted on 2005-06-20 20:27:53 by d.onstenk

I dunno about that. Several times Richard has stated explicitly that he is
and will be a bedroom player by choice.

#####

&quot;Johnny Asia&quot; &lt;poki_pongo at yahoo.com&gt; schreef in bericht
news:<a href="mailto:ju1eb15r7akgf2qf8253igpjh3kfq0b2aj&#64;4ax.com..." target="_blank">ju1eb15r7akgf2qf8253igpjh3kfq0b2aj&#64;4ax.com...</a>
&gt; On 20 Jun 2005 09:02:32 -0700, &quot;pmfan57&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:jwragusa&#64;aol.com" target="_blank">jwragusa&#64;aol.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;I also agree that Richard is a badass guitar player, &gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt; AHA! There's the problem!
&gt;
&gt; The solution...Richard should record a CD, get his music
&gt; out there, get the recognition he deserves, and then I'll bet
&gt; he won't be so hyper-critical about the playing of other players
&gt; who have successfully carved out a niche for themselves.
&gt;
&gt; It's worth a try!
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; +
&gt;
&gt; Johnny Asia, Hippie Guitarist
&gt; <a href="http://johnnyasia.info" target="_blank">http://johnnyasia.info</a>
&gt;
&gt; <a href="http://www.angelfire.com/art2/painterny/johnny/ja2.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.angelfire.com/art2/painterny/johnny/ja2.jpg</a>
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; &quot;I say play your own way. Don't play what the public wants. You play what
&gt; you want and let the public pick up on what you're doing even if it does
&gt; take
&gt; them fifteen, twenty years.&quot; - Thelonious Monk

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#68: Re: Stirring things up

Posted on 2005-06-21 04:09:40 by Greger Hoel

On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 17:39:35 +0200, &quot;Five Sharp&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:d.onstenk&#64;chello.nl" target="_blank">d.onstenk&#64;chello.nl</a>&gt;
wrote:

&gt;I stopped admiring Brian May when I heard that famous 1986 live concert. He
&gt;sounded like the ordinary heavy rock John Doe. Though I have never liked
&gt;Queen from day 1 (too soft for me I was into heavier rock) I used to admire
&gt;his playing. Unfortunately live he cannot pull it off and he just sounds
&gt;like Joe average rock dude.
&gt;
&gt;He sounds good in the studio though if you like that kind of stuff. Live
&gt;heck no.

Anybody hear him and some Ukranian badass flutist on this years 46664
(Nelson Mandela's anti-AIDS project) concert? I hear it was
broadcasted all over the world...
Very melodic and beautiful playing. And he didn't appear in any shape
or form to not have his shit totally together.
--
_______________________________________________
Always cross a vampire, never moon a werewolf

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